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Combo Name: Runaway!!

Submitted By: auron

Card Name

Type

Cost

P/T

Editions (ordered by release)

Elvish Piper

Summon Creature - Elf

(1/1)

Overwhelming Stampede

Sorcery

3GG

True Conviction

Enchantment

3WWW

Victory's Herald

Creature - Angel

3WWW

4/4

Craterhoof Behemoth

Creature - Beast

5GGG

5/5

Estimated Combo Cost: $9.63

Date Posted: Fri Nov/16/12 at 12:52 pm

auron

Posts: 123
Joined: 04-Nov-12

Have victory's herald, true conviction and elvish piper first.
Then let the abilities stack

Have fun

Any questions?

Date Posted: Fri Nov/16/12 at 1:48pm

archdemonsuicide777

Posts: 74
Joined: 05-Nov-12

yes how the hell do u freakin beat this shit

Date Posted: Fri Nov/16/12 at 1:49pm

auron

Posts: 123
Joined: 04-Nov-12

Not telling

Date Posted: Fri Nov/16/12 at 1:49pm

archdemonsuicide777

Posts: 74
Joined: 05-Nov-12

o wait counter control

Date Posted: Fri Nov/16/12 at 1:51pm

TheCaptain

Posts: 909
Joined: 13-Apr-11

@Archdemon, it's 5 cards that are so expensive that you really wouldn't be playing them all on the same turn. Having so many threats out before they all come into play set's someone up for disruption - not to mention that in the only format where this sort of synergy is viable (EDH), it's difficult to get all of these cards in your hand. And even if you did non-EDH and had 4 of each, that's a messed up curve, most of the time you'll end up with not enough lands.

But I like the premise, I think that most people won't be able to come back from this if you get it off. Very fun for casual formats certainly.

Date Posted: Fri Nov/16/12 at 1:53pm

auron

Posts: 123
Joined: 04-Nov-12

I'm in legacy format

Date Posted: Fri Nov/16/12 at 2:02pm

TheCaptain

Posts: 909
Joined: 13-Apr-11

I mean, this is legacy legal technically, yes. Are you taking this to a Legacy tournament though? This can't be competitive, it has to be casual.

Date Posted: Fri Nov/16/12 at 4:36pm

Dovahkiin

Posts: 18
Joined: 07-Nov-12

Noone knows better than me that auron can pull off this combo with no effort at all even during tournaments. I play him literally everyday. If you doubt it play him.

Date Posted: Fri Nov/16/12 at 6:09pm

Boyachi

Posts: 1553
Joined: 02-Nov-11

I'm rather sure that the lifelink abilities don't stack. Spirit Link and Life Link would, but you can't give something "double flying" or "double first-strike (no not double strike, don't you dare. Just no.)".

Date Posted: Fri Nov/16/12 at 6:16pm

auron

Posts: 123
Joined: 04-Nov-12

I was talking about trample stack.

Date Posted: Fri Nov/16/12 at 10:57pm

GoodGuyTyler

Posts: 202
Joined: 14-Mar-12

Well, I'd love to see a deck list if you can get this off consistently on turns one, two or three. Because that's the clock that you have to beat during legacy or modern tournaments.

Date Posted: Sat Nov/17/12 at 12:01am

archdemonsuicide777

Posts: 74
Joined: 05-Nov-12

first off this fucking combo has fuck me over so many goddamn times even in a legacy format in a sanction tournament and because of this combo no one is allowed to help anyone else at the place we go to so for all u nay sayers that think he cant pull it off should stfu cause this is his second combo and it hurts like a bitch

Date Posted: Sat Nov/17/12 at 2:08am

theotherguy

Posts: 346
Joined: 04-Feb-11

How to beat this? Fog. Bone Splinters, sacrificing a Saproling from Korozda Guildmage. Deadly Allure on another Saproling, then flashback the Deadly Allure onto Dreg Mangler. Counterattack with those and a Ghoultree.

Not that this isn't a game-changing combo, but if you cancel the damage (Fog, Safe Passage, Holy Day), it stalls out the Craterhoof. My point being that virtually every combo on this site can be shut down by some card that costs less than 4 mana.

In all seriousness, keep up the good work!

[Edited by theotherguy on 17/Nov/12 at 2:14AM]

Date Posted: Sat Nov/17/12 at 4:26pm

TheCaptain

Posts: 909
Joined: 13-Apr-11

Look, If i've offended you, then I'm sorry? I think getting upset is a pretty strong reaction, especially considering how most people behave on the internet. And if you are really an amazing legacy player with a consistent competitive deck then that's great, and more power to you. Just keep using it and winning.

But I think that people's skepticism is justified. Most competitive legacy players I know have been playing for at least over 10 years and their grasp on the intricacies of Magic are astounding. They are either judges, or could easily become judges without trying. Auron, you recently asked some questions in the forums that seem to indicate that you are a fairly new player - or at the very least there are a lot of nuances of the game you haven't encountered (which it seems like you would of in any competitive environment). I think it's great for people to ask about rules questions and inform themselves about the game, but, a fair warning, it's going to give people the impression that you are a fairly inexperienced player, or have not been playing a long time.

If any of these assumptions are wrong, then there's no reason to flip out, just take it all worth a grain of salt and move on. Just realize that people may have developed a certain impression so far and getting angry about it isn't going to lend you any credibility.

Date Posted: Sat Nov/17/12 at 5:02pm

Turbine

Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

"I was talking about trample stack."

There is no such thing as trample stack. . .

Date Posted: Sat Nov/17/12 at 5:08pm

shmogi

Posts: 220
Joined: 14-Dec-11

Date Posted: Sat Nov/17/12 at 5:33pm

archdemonsuicide777

Posts: 74
Joined: 05-Nov-12

hey captain im sorry i didn't mean to get offensive over what u said last night i wasn't really thinking and thank u for ur oppion about this combo and another thing whos raine

Date Posted: Sat Nov/17/12 at 9:51pm

GoodGuyTyler

Posts: 202
Joined: 14-Mar-12

Wow, that response was unnecessary. The phrase "sanctioned tournaments" don't really mean a lot here. There was a guy a while back who claimed that since Progenitus had protection from everything, that it couldn't be killed through board wipe during an FNM sanctioned event. I guess it all depends on your local meta but Modern and Legacy especially have access to cards that should never be able to work together, and as such the combos are much more powerful and consistent. I have no doubt in my mind that he can "pull it off," but what I'm saying is that at a real, competitive tournament against serious Modern/Legacy players I can't see this happening a lot even with a god hand and mana ramp.

Also, if you guys want to beat this deck by outracing it in Modern/Legacy, just build a cheap burn deck with Kiln Fiend.

Date Posted: Sat Nov/17/12 at 11:46pm

americanwerewolf

Posts: 79
Joined: 23-Dec-11

I would think stuffy doll and pariah's shield would be enough to stop it.

Date Posted: Sun Nov/18/12 at 9:13am

auron

Posts: 123
Joined: 04-Nov-12

Or Witchbane orb

Date Posted: Sun Nov/18/12 at 2:40pm

GoodGuyTyler

Posts: 202
Joined: 14-Mar-12

What are you talking about?? What would Witchbane Orb do?? Unless you're saying that you'd sideboard in WBO vs. a Burn deck?? I'd just sideboard in more removal spells and spells to make Kiln Fiend unblockable; either way he's getting +3/+0 for each spell and now he's unblockable, or I've killed all your blockers.

Date Posted: Sun Nov/18/12 at 5:18pm

auron

Posts: 123
Joined: 04-Nov-12

Beast within

Date Posted: Sun Nov/18/12 at 5:21pm

auron

Posts: 123
Joined: 04-Nov-12

your creature

Date Posted: Sun Nov/18/12 at 9:59pm

GoodGuyTyler

Posts: 202
Joined: 14-Mar-12

I could counter your beast within and ironically make Kiln Fiend stronger.

Date Posted: Sun Nov/18/12 at 10:52pm

auron

Posts: 123
Joined: 04-Nov-12

red counter i'm lost.

Date Posted: Mon Nov/19/12 at 12:09am

GoodGuyTyler

Posts: 202
Joined: 14-Mar-12

You play Kiln Fiend R/U so you have access to Distortion Strike and Artful Dodge as I mentioned earlier.

Date Posted: Mon Nov/19/12 at 9:53am

archdemonsuicide777

Posts: 74
Joined: 05-Nov-12

I thought you said just a cheap red burn deck and last time I checked U isn't apart of a cheap red burn deck so i have to say Auron wins this one

Date Posted: Mon Nov/19/12 at 11:11am

GoodGuyTyler

Posts: 202
Joined: 14-Mar-12

Have you guys never heard of a sideboard? Game one is mono red burn because no one main boards witchbane orb unless they're retarded. Game two, I sideboard in some islands and U bounce, evasion and counterspells to fuck up their strategy. I don't even know why I'm debating who would win a hypothetical game of cards with a bunch of obvious rookies. If you think this combo is good, good for you. Just keep in mind that those around you have a lot more experience than you and that you're not fooling anybody when you try and debate with people like you did above. Remember that other players have a lot to offer in terms of advice and strategies and pissing them off with ridiculous arguments isn't going to net you many friends.

Date Posted: Mon Nov/19/12 at 11:19am

auron

Posts: 123
Joined: 04-Nov-12

Sry for who ever pissed u off and u win cause i wasn't thinking about sideboard and u just said red burn so i said WBO.

Date Posted: Mon Nov/19/12 at 4:08pm

archdemonsuicide777

Posts: 74
Joined: 05-Nov-12

ummm ok you said there was no reason to get mad dude jeez you act like we were perpusly trying to to piss you off we were just saying that this a combo not saying what term we can pull this off in fact i think the earliest turn we got this off of in a tournament was turn 5

Date Posted: Mon Nov/19/12 at 5:50pm

GoodGuyTyler

Posts: 202
Joined: 14-Mar-12

"ummm ok you said there was no reason to get mad dude
jeez"

I never said that.

"you act like we were perpusly trying to to piss you off"

*Purposely

"we were
just saying that this a combo not saying what term we can pull this off
in fact i think the earliest turn we got this off of in a tournament was
turn 5"

Still going with the tournament story huh?? It's possible but insanely improbable that you had this exact order:

T1- Forest, Bird of Paradise
T2- Plains, Harrow, Rampant Growth
T3- Land, Elvish Piper, Rampant Growth again
T4- Land, Piper into Herald, True Conviction
T5- Land, Piper into Craterhoof, Stampede

That's literally the ONLY way to do this T5 and it's only possible if you get a God hand AND Godlike draws AND your opponent is an inanimate object who has never heard of Gutshot. Be honest, you guys play casual. There's no shame in it, casual is awesome with a group of your friends who are all into Magic. What's pissing me off is that you insist that you play in sanctioned tournaments in a format of that I know from first-hand experience is extremely fast paced and unforgiving. It's like you think we're retarded or something. It's like if I told you I was an expert on marine biology, but insisted that whales were just really big fish and posted my story on a website for other marine biologists. On the off chance that I'm wrong, may God have mercy on your meta... For they know not how to play Magic.

Date Posted: Mon Nov/19/12 at 8:00pm

auron

Posts: 123
Joined: 04-Nov-12

My deck list

4xavacyn's pilgrim
4xovergrown battlement
4xLlanowar elves
1xAjani Goldmane
1xGarruk Wildspeaker
1xtrue conviction
1xgreen sun's zenith
1xavacyn,angel of hope
1xchancellor of the annex
1xvorinclex,voice of hunger
1xoverwhelming stampede
1xpaleoloth
2xgoldnight redeemer
2xprimordial hydra
1xengulfing slagwurm
2xrampant growth
1xvictory's herald
1xvigor
1xvengeful Archon
3xsoul's attendant
1xessence warden
1xcraterhoof behemoth
1xvorapede
1xelvish piper
2xphyrexian rebirth
10x forest
10xplains

Ur opinion does it need work

Date Posted: Mon Nov/19/12 at 8:57pm

GoodGuyTyler

Posts: 202
Joined: 14-Mar-12

Not bad, first off I also love G/W, so good on you there. My only concern right now is that I'm seeing 2 different decks. One is a lifegain deck and the other is ramp/stompy. My first suggestion would be to specialize on one thing first. Dedicate to either one or the other so that it can consistently do what you want it to do, when you want it to do it. I'm guessing your win-con is Craterhoof or Overwhelming Stampede with a ton of creatures?? If that's your win-con, then build a deck that supports and protects that win-con. Manadorks like Avacyn's Pilgrim and Llanowar Elves are great for that. Overgrown Battlement is ok too, but it can't attack in the swarm that you're amassing, so I'd suggest maybe Arbor Elves in its place. It can still chump block and it does essentially the same thing as Battlement, but it can attack in the swarm once Craterhoof or Stampede hits the field. Garruk is pretty good in here because he provides ramp as well as an alternative Overrun win-con. I also like Ajani because of his -1 ability which pumps up your creatures and gives them vigilance for the turn. Paleoloth can probably go since you only have 5 or 6 creatures that actually trigger him. In his stead, you could probably put in Sun Titan since most of your creatures (that will be constantly dying anyways) are under 3 CMC. You have a lot of single badass creatures, so for the sake of consistency, I'd suggest that you choose which effect you like best and focus on that. Vorinclex and Vigor are awesome, plus you can fetch them with a Green Sun's. Avacyn is a little trickier and I feel like she's only in there for the board wipes. I'd suggest taking out Avacyn and the board wipes. They're a good combo, but it seems a little win-more, i.e. it's not necessary for you to accomplish your win-con. If you're facing a deck that's more agressive than yours and you want the board wiped in your favour, I'd suggest a sideboard with Dauntless Escort and Wrath of God. They're cheaper and do the same thing minus the giant token that you don't really need. I'd also suggest taking out the Victory's Herald and putting in either another True Conviction (for draw power) or a Primeval Titan, because he's unbeatable in ramp/stompy decks like this. Consider taking out Essence Warden and Soul's Attendants too. They are ok at the beginning of the game, but late game they're definitely not the game changing card you want them to be, plus there is enough lifegain otherwise from lifelink and Ajani to make up for their loss. Also, your mana curve is a little messy. Ideally you want your mana curve to be like a Christmas tree, with lots of low cost spells at the bottom and less and less higher costing spells as you move upward. As it is now, it's got a wide base, then it narrows in the middle, then it gets wider again at the top. To fix this and to ensure you have a spell to play every turn, I'd suggest taking out some of your 6+ CMC creatures/spells and putting in some ramp spells like Kodama's Reach/Cultivate or Harrow. These fit nicely into the 3 CMC slot and they can be played early game with the help of your mana dorks. Finally, get more Craterhoofs. They rock with mana dorks and ramp. If this is your win-con, I'd put in 1 or 2 more Craterhoofs and 1 more Overwhelming Stampede and maybe look into a copy of Overrun in case the strongest creature you control is a 1/1.

Date Posted: Mon Nov/19/12 at 9:00pm

archdemonsuicide777

Posts: 74
Joined: 05-Nov-12

we don't play casual thats the thing u don't get we play in a legetament lagicy tournament on tuseday and i play standard on fnm

Date Posted: Mon Nov/19/12 at 9:07pm

GoodGuyTyler

Posts: 202
Joined: 14-Mar-12

For reference as to what your deck could do with the right tools, look at this similar deck:

http://www.gatheringmagic.com/mikecannon-073012-elvish-behemoths/

P.S. Sorry for being a dick, it's nothing personal. I just don't like being treated like a fool. For what it's worth, my first deck was a G/W deck. It sucked though, you look like you have a pretty good start.

Date Posted: Mon Nov/19/12 at 9:27pm

Narcinek War-Rider

Posts: 1283
Joined: 16-Jun-11

Ya know if you played Khalni Heart Expedition T2 and Harrow T3 you could have 7 lands T4 and kick Piper and Play each of the creatures one at a time.

Khalni Heart Expedition and Harrow is single handedly my favorite synergy.

Date Posted: Mon Nov/19/12 at 9:55pm

GoodGuyTyler

Posts: 202
Joined: 14-Mar-12

Archdemon...

Literally nothing you say will change my mind lol. I don't care about your "legitimate tournaments." There's nothing you can say that will make me believe that this deck was competitive on a higher level of play against decks that have access to cards like Mana Drain AND Snapcaster Mage, which would absolutely cripple a deck that has high CMC spells like this one. It'd probably be a bitch in casual, but in an actual tournament... I'm sorry but no. There is literally so much that can be done in Legacy and this deck is only scratching the surface.

P.S. You make it sound like playing casual is a bad thing! Everyone plays casually with their friends or against random people they meet in card shops.

[Edited by GoodGuyTyler on 19/Nov/12 at 9:57PM]

Date Posted: Tue Nov/20/12 at 6:17am

Boyachi

Posts: 1553
Joined: 02-Nov-11

Hey GGT, Did you see the Omniscience+Flash+Academy Rector combo? That goes off turn two, turn one if there is a Mox-like card in hand. This makes the Elvish Piper useless.
Thus the hand is:
Omni (AR-ed)
Flash
AR
CR
TC
VH
OS
Island
Mox
=9-1=8 cards.

Ergo, if you went second there is a possibility to play this your first turn. I think that is quicker than turn five. I'm just going to put that out there.

Date Posted: Tue Nov/20/12 at 10:01am

GoodGuyTyler

Posts: 202
Joined: 14-Mar-12

True, that IS possible, but he was working within the constraints of G/W, so I didn't consider any other colour.

[Edited by GoodGuyTyler on 20/Nov/12 at 10:07AM]

Date Posted: Tue Nov/20/12 at 10:44am

Boyachi

Posts: 1553
Joined: 02-Nov-11

I figured it could be in his sideboard.

Date Posted: Tue Nov/20/12 at 11:52am

Academic

Posts: 1305
Joined: 29-Mar-12

This is a fucking clown show.

Date Posted: Tue Nov/20/12 at 1:03pm

auron

Posts: 123
Joined: 04-Nov-12

Thinking about putting emrakul in my deck.

What do u think?

Date Posted: Tue Nov/20/12 at 6:08pm

GoodGuyTyler

Posts: 202
Joined: 14-Mar-12

Instead of me telling you what I think, tell ME why you think Emrakul would make a good addition to your deck.

Date Posted: Tue Nov/20/12 at 6:51pm

shmogi

Posts: 220
Joined: 14-Dec-11

yeah auron, make your own decisions. i feel like my deck could beat yours though.

Date Posted: Tue Nov/20/12 at 6:51pm

shmogi

Posts: 220
Joined: 14-Dec-11

yeah auron, make your own decisions. i feel like my deck could beat yours though.

Date Posted: Tue Nov/20/12 at 8:40pm

auron

Posts: 123
Joined: 04-Nov-12

If u can kill me before 6 or 7 turn.

Date Posted: Tue Nov/20/12 at 8:43pm

auron

Posts: 123
Joined: 04-Nov-12

Reason for putting emrakul anti-mill.

Date Posted: Tue Nov/20/12 at 9:04pm

GoodGuyTyler

Posts: 202
Joined: 14-Mar-12

Ahh, well if that's the reason then he would be a really good sideboard card. You likely won't be up against all mill decks, so this would be where the sideboard comes in. If you face a mill deck round 1, then you know to sideboard in Emrakul round 2 so that you can win with ease. If you mainboard him, he raises the risk of being a dead card when drawn.

Date Posted: Tue Nov/20/12 at 9:09pm

Turbine

Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

I always kill people before turn 7 with my Ally deck, which, by the way, I built on a very restrictive budget.

My U/R deck is generally a turn 5 kill.

Plus, my decks got raped by competitive people at FNM.

[Edited by Turbine on 20/Nov/12 at 9:10PM]

Date Posted: Tue Nov/20/12 at 9:14pm

auron

Posts: 123
Joined: 04-Nov-12

Fastest my deck been was 4 turn avacyn

Date Posted: Tue Nov/20/12 at 9:19pm

Turbine

Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

Fastest means luckiest.

Consistency is what matters.

My fastest was killing 250 cards in 4 turns with Halimar Excavator.

Date Posted: Tue Nov/20/12 at 9:28pm

auron

Posts: 123
Joined: 04-Nov-12

Damn.

Date Posted: Tue Nov/20/12 at 9:36pm

auron

Posts: 123
Joined: 04-Nov-12

Replace the overgrown battlements with birds of paradise.

Date Posted: Tue Nov/20/12 at 10:29pm

auron

Posts: 123
Joined: 04-Nov-12

Goodguy Tyler...

Would lurking predators work in this type of deck?

Date Posted: Tue Nov/20/12 at 11:17pm

GoodGuyTyler

Posts: 202
Joined: 14-Mar-12

Maybe, it depends on which way you want to go with it. If you want to keep a deck with a lot of fatties, then Lurking Predators would be good to cheat them into play (it's also stupid good in multiplayer or EDH). The only problem is that this deck has a lot of non creature spells. It also has a lot of the creature spells are actually fairly cheap (like the mana dorks). Your original decklist has only 8 creatures that would be hard to get into play (CMC 6+), so if you think about it in a statistical manner, you only have a 13% chance of top decking a creature advantageously. You have 29 non creature spells and lands, so you have a 48% chance of top decking something that's useless to you (that's almost half the time). The rest of the time you'll be getting a fairly cheap creature that you could have easily hard cast anyways. If you factor this in with the fact that you'd be getting this onto the field by turns 4 or 5 with ramp, it doesn't lead to that great of an advantage late game. If you put more mana dorks in, look into Garruk's Horde. He's ridiculously good at getting a lot of dorks onto the field. If you want to put more traditional ramp spells in, look into Rampaging Baloths. He's nutty with landfall, and with ramp spells like Harrow, he'd be getting you 2 4/4s for 3 mana. Either of these cards would be a much better choice in terms of field advantage than Lurking Predators.

Date Posted: Tue Nov/20/12 at 11:21pm

shmogi

Posts: 220
Joined: 14-Dec-11

Auron, I can make you wanna concede at turn 1-4.
wanna know how?
Reanimator.
Iona, or Griselbrand, or Elesh Norn, or even angel of serenity on t1-t4.

[Edited by TehGrandShlig on 20/Nov/12 at 11:23PM]

Date Posted: Tue Nov/20/12 at 11:24pm

GoodGuyTyler

Posts: 202
Joined: 14-Mar-12

Why the hell would you want an Angel of Serenity T1??

Date Posted: Tue Nov/20/12 at 11:40pm

auron

Posts: 123
Joined: 04-Nov-12

Not scared and I don't concede unless u turn 1 emrakul

Date Posted: Thu Dec/13/12 at 4:49pm

shmogi

Posts: 220
Joined: 14-Dec-11

T1 Iona for green. bro. you have no ramp then. or t1 Akroma. ever heard of her?

Date Posted: Fri Dec/14/12 at 1:29pm

auron

Posts: 123
Joined: 04-Nov-12

i don't really use ramp i have mana dorks.

Date Posted: Mon Jan/21/13 at 12:43am

Chewy

Posts: 841
Joined: 18-Jan-13

This has got to be the most interesting line of comments I've seen since I've been on the site lol. If you all are talking about speed, I built a legacy deck that consistently kills turns 1-3, and I have about 3 combos in this deck. First legacy deck that's around UG. Any suggestions of good cards? And auron, druids call on something indestructible could be something entertaining to play against. And throwing pariah on it maybe... :)

Date Posted: Mon Jan/21/13 at 12:44am

Chewy

Posts: 841
Joined: 18-Jan-13

And this combo is pretty good too btw lol

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