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Infinite Mill and Destroy

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Woodfall PrimusEnlarge

Woodfall Primus

{5}{G}{G}{G}

Creature — Treefolk Shaman

Shadowmoor

Read rules for Woodfall Primus
Trample When this creature enters, destroy target noncreature permanent. Persist (When this creature dies, if it had no -1/-1 counters on it, return it to the battlefield under its owner's control with a -1/-1 counter on it.)

6/6

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Date Posted: Mon Jun/11/12 at 9:18 am

Aznb01777
Posts: 9
Joined: 11-Jun-12

Use altar of dementia as a sac outlet, Melira prevents negative counters on Woodall, infinite persist n destroy all noncreature permanents.
Date Posted: Mon Jun/11/12 at 9:51am

Boyachi
Posts: 1553
Joined: 02-Nov-11

I see this going off turn five with Elvish Piper/Quicksilver amulet
Date Posted: Mon Jun/11/12 at 10:33am

hypnoschaos
Posts: 22
Joined: 15-Feb-11

Just be careful. Woodfall Primus is not optional, and if you are going for infinite mill, you will have to destroy your own stuff, although I think you can stack it so you target all the opponents' permanents before any resolve, so you can save your stuff.  Can someone back me up on this?

Still, destroying all noncreature permanents you don't like is good enough on its own.
Date Posted: Mon Jun/11/12 at 6:09pm

Aznb01777
Posts: 9
Joined: 11-Jun-12

It's not a never ending unstoppable loop. U can sac as often and anytime u want with altar of dementia.
It's an awesome combo in my captain Sisay edh
Date Posted: Mon Jun/11/12 at 7:56pm

americanwerewolf
Posts: 79
Joined: 23-Dec-11

You could use essence of the wild, requiem angel, and a bantha fodder creature for sac purposes.
Date Posted: Mon Jun/11/12 at 10:25pm

Aznb01777
Posts: 9
Joined: 11-Jun-12

Seem like too much work needed to set that up, I cap my combos off at 3 cards for efficiency
Date Posted: Tue Jun/12/12 at 2:29am

Academic
Posts: 1305
Joined: 29-Mar-12

You need to stop dismissing people. I get that most magic players have difficulties with social situations - let me politely tell you that you are mishandling this one.

As for the combo... this isn't an 'infinite mill and destroy' combo. It mills exactly as many times as a player has non-creature permanents, unless you start sacrificing your own scraps, and even then, you're limited to what's on the field.

Given that your endgoal is deck-death, you'd be better served running a creature that doesn't put your own non-creatures at risk. In this combo, *any* other creature with persist does the job better.

If you need to have some 'enters battlefield' ability to take advantage of, go with Kitchen Finks (2 life each time), Murderous Redcap (2 damage each time), or River Kelpie (You draw a card for every three your opponent loses). All of these would allow for the mill mechanic to go off, without limiting the amount of times you can use it (which the Woodfall Primus does - especially considering that the last of the sacrifices you make would have to be the Altar of Dementia).

-edit- Also, Woodfall Primus is hella expensive, considering it's being used primarily as the mechanism for a voluntary infinite mill loop. I'd either run the Kitchen Finks (who are affordable at a flexible three mana with an added ability), or the Safehold Elite (for a flexible two mana). -/edit-

More importantly, though - the basic combo has already been covered here. I'm going to submit one of my own, since you've already dredged up the corpse, but Altar/Melira/"card with persist" has been here for a while. It's been done, it's been done better.



And last but not least - this idea suffers the same weakness as all non-exile based mill combos. All it takes is your opponent playing an Eldrazi shuffler, or any other shuffler, and you're pretty much undone. Consider running Planar Void.





[Edited by Academic on 12/Jun/12 at 4:13AM]
Date Posted: Tue Jun/12/12 at 6:27am

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

"You need to stop dismissing people. I get that most magic players have difficulties with social situations - let me politely tell you that you are mishandling this one."


Who is dismissing people?
Date Posted: Tue Jun/12/12 at 7:03am

Academic
Posts: 1305
Joined: 29-Mar-12

The person who's dismissed both hypnoschaos and Izztranlin, when each provided a bit of insight. And he was incorrect each time. Hypnoschaos warned that this wasn't infinite mill - Azbn's reply is to say it's infinite unless you choose otherwise. He was wrong to brush off hypnos, because hypnos was right.

Izztranlyn suggested that there were other options for taking advantage of the sac mechanism. Azbn's response is that those are too much work (because he likes three card combos), because Azbn translated this to mean add cards to the combo. Izz wasn't talking combos, he was talking synergy!

Because of (what are perceivable) misunderstandings, Azbn responded in incongruous fashion. My response was to be direct, with moderate language, explaining that this was poor form.

Now don't ever ask me to explain myself to you again. ^^

Azbn - since you're running this style Persist combo, you might also consider the +1/+1 variation on this theme, Undying. The mechanic is similar, and is equally exploitable.



[Edited by Academic on 12/Jun/12 at 7:04AM]
Date Posted: Tue Jun/12/12 at 7:19am

Aznb01777
Posts: 9
Joined: 11-Jun-12

Academic chill dude, I made some errors bout infinite I admit, but I wasn't dismissing ppl. Guy was talking about adding 3 more cards to the combo making it a 6 card set up which is harder to do. N other guys said watch out u might end up destroying ur own permanents all I said it can be stopped, unlike combos like niv-mizzet n curiousity where u can't stop it n deck urself off.
Date Posted: Tue Jun/12/12 at 7:32am

Academic
Posts: 1305
Joined: 29-Mar-12

'Guy' (Izz, you mean) was suggesting cards with synergy, not additional cards for the combo.

As for hypnos, I can only go off the words you've used, such as "U can sac as often and anytime u want with altar of dementia.".

Kindly don't tell me to chill, bro. Every time I've spoken to you directly, I've been 'chill', and polite. It's impolite to impress otherwise. :D
Date Posted: Tue Jun/12/12 at 7:41am

Aznb01777
Posts: 9
Joined: 11-Jun-12

Idk what bantha fodder cards are so it looks like he is saying throw in essence and angel in to make a bunch of essence token with using the woodfall, melira, n altar for sac loop
Date Posted: Tue Jun/12/12 at 7:45am

Aznb01777
Posts: 9
Joined: 11-Jun-12

I wouldn't know that, it seemed like u were ranting since its quite lengthy, that's y i interpret as u r making more of a deal than it should. Well miscommunication in writing is common =P
Date Posted: Tue Jun/12/12 at 7:52am

Academic
Posts: 1305
Joined: 29-Mar-12

:D Try reading the post. I promise there's helpful insight in there, and not me tearing you a new one.
Date Posted: Tue Jun/12/12 at 7:58am

Aznb01777
Posts: 9
Joined: 11-Jun-12

So what is a bantha fodder?
Date Posted: Tue Jun/12/12 at 8:10am

Academic
Posts: 1305
Joined: 29-Mar-12

This, I think.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bantha_fodder
Date Posted: Tue Jun/12/12 at 8:15am

Aznb01777
Posts: 9
Joined: 11-Jun-12

Izz said bantha fodder creature for sac purpose. Not making any sense of it
Date Posted: Tue Jun/12/12 at 8:24am

Academic
Posts: 1305
Joined: 29-Mar-12

Parsing out the nomenclature, it would seem to mean 'a creature designated to be sacrificed'.
Date Posted: Tue Jun/12/12 at 9:41am

Squillis
Posts: 424
Joined: 20-Nov-08

looking this over, I noticed this CAN go infinite, you just need to respond to triggers right.  When your opponent gets down to 1 measly tapped land left, sac the Primus to the Altar, Primus undies, comes back, and target that land with the EtB trigger.  Before the trigger resolves, sac the Primus again.  You'll end up with a stack infinitly deep of Altar triggers and Primus's targetting that one land.  When you let the stack resolve the library will go away and each Primus trigger before the most recent will fizzle.