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Title: 20-Card Combo Challenge
Date Posted: Wed Jan/23/13 at 10:29am

flagshippredator
Posts: 101
Joined: 22-Dec-09

Do you guys think it's possible to create a 20-card combo?

I'm not talking a 3-4 card combo powering 15 other cards. Or two 5-6 card combos with enough redundant parts to make the combo efficient.

I'm talking 20 cards. Each card does something that contributes to the combo.

The rules for this Challenge.
1) No banned list.
2) Each card must have something to do with the combo. (ie. Oh... I have infinite mana and 19 cards. I know... I'll add in Staff of Domination to make 20.)
3) The combo must be infinite.
4) Posting infinite combos to power other combos are not combos. The mana-producing must be part of your combo. (Ie. Fastbond, Zuran Orb, Crucible of worlds gives infinite mana. Don't add 14 other random cards using that mana.)
5) You're allowed to use multiples of the same card (limit 4) as long as each of them can be justified.
Date Posted: Wed Jan/23/13 at 12:22pm

Boyachi
Posts: 1553
Joined: 02-Nov-11

The multiple is what did you in.
1xOmniscience
2xRecycle
1xAluren
1xSeal of Cleansing
4xBoon reflection
1xCathedral Sanctifier
1xAcademy Rector
1xReplenish
1xPhyrexian Altar
2xBirds of Paradise
1xFastbond
1xSanguin Bond
1xCloudstone Curio
1xAttunement
1xWorldly Tutor

Worldly Tutor is for the Rector which is dying On the Phyrexian Altar for Omniscience to play everything coming in with the Aluren and Recycles. Fastbond allows you to play your lands to continue the Recycle and you gain the life back by bouncing Cathedral Sanctifier with Cloudstone Curio, which also thanks to the 4x Boon Reflections and the Sanguin Bond, will one-hit-KO the average player as you just bounce a Bird of Paradise, which is used for mana acceleraction, and the Sanctifier as many times as you have players. Attunement is so you can get all the non-Omniscience-enchantments into your graveyard to bring them into play with replenish.
Oh, and Seal of Cleansing is to break both of the Recycles (first kill the first one, then Replenish, and once all is assuredly in place, re-sacrifice it to take out the second so that you do not deck yourself).

You mean something like this?
Date Posted: Wed Jan/23/13 at 2:12pm

Academic
Posts: 1305
Joined: 29-Mar-12

There is no such thing as a twenty card combo. Period.

Shit, I still think that anything more than a four card combo is wishful thinking. And even that is pushing it.

I think what you'd meant to say is "Hey guys what's your dream topdeck + godhand?".
Date Posted: Wed Jan/23/13 at 2:22pm

flagshippredator
Posts: 101
Joined: 22-Dec-09

A 20-card combo does exist. (See below) Granted it's not efficient.

Izzet Staticaster
2 Deep Slumber Titan
2 Darksteel Plate
Crackleburr
Mirran Spy
2 Carnival of Souls
Skyshroud Elf
Arbor Elf
Alter Reality
Auriok Salvagers
Memnite
Earthcraft
Animal Boneyard
Forest
2 Fertile Ground
Angel of Mercy

2x Deep-Slumber Titan (Each equipped with a Darksteel Plate) (to tap with Crackleburr)
1x Izzet Staticaster (to untap the Titas)
1x Crackleburr (To deal damage and Bounce the Angel)
1x Angel of Mercy (To gain life)
1x Mirran Spy (To untap the Staticaster)
1x Skyshroud Elf (To filter Mana, And is Blue, so it untaps with Crackleburr)
1x Arbor Elf (To untap the forest, and is blue so it untaps with Crackleburr)
1x Forest Enchanted with 2x Fertile Ground, 1x Animal Boneyard
1x Memnite (To untap the Staticaster, and trigger the Carnival)
2x Carnival of Souls (To trigger upon the arrival of Memnite)
1x Auriok Salvager (To return Memnite to play)
1x Earthcraft (To untap the land)...

And the Combo looks like this:

1)Tap Izzet Staticaster to untap the two Deep-Slumber Titans.
2) Tap and Untap the forest with Arbor elf and get 6 mana, and tap Skyshroud Elf for one. (makes 7 mana)
3) Filter the mana through Skyshroud Elf to make it all red. (Mana fixing)
4)Tap the two Titans and Crackleburr for 3 damage. (5 mana)
6) Use Angel of Mercy to untap the land with Earth Craft (8 Mana)
7) untap Crackleburr and the Elves, which are blue thanks to thanks to Alter Reality. (6 Mana)
8)Crackleburr returns Angel of Mercy to your hand.
9) Cast Angel of Mercy (Spending two of your own mana the first time), getting 2 mana from Carnival of Souls and leaving you at +1 life. (3 Mana)
10) Tap the Memnite to untap the land again. (3 mana)
11)Sac the Memnite with Animal Boneyard and gain 1 life.
12) Return Memnite with Auriok Salvagers to your hand. (1 Mana)
13) Cast Memnite, untapping Izzet Staticaster with Mirran Spy.

[Edited by flagshippredator on 23/Jan/13 at 2:22PM]
Date Posted: Wed Jan/23/13 at 2:24pm

flagshippredator
Posts: 101
Joined: 22-Dec-09

And Boyachi,

That combo is pretty much

Aluren
Cloudstone Curio
2 Small dudes.

The other cards aren't really needed to pull that off.

[Edited by flagshippredator on 23/Jan/13 at 2:24PM]
Date Posted: Wed Jan/23/13 at 2:39pm

Boyachi
Posts: 1553
Joined: 02-Nov-11

That is the problem with your question. Believe it or not, you are asking us how to build a deck around a combo. The rest of the cards in your deck are either contingency, boosters, stallers, or payers.

Also you saw the infinite life, but missed the fact that it was also infinite draw and infinite damage. The birds ramp the combo to make it happen faster, meaning the opponent has less of a chance to respond.


[Edited by Boyachi on 23/Jan/13 at 2:44PM]
Date Posted: Wed Jan/23/13 at 2:51pm

Academic
Posts: 1305
Joined: 29-Mar-12

That just kind of falls into what I'd said. If it's not efficient, it's not really a combo - just a topdeck + godhand.

I mean, take a look at the best combos on this site. Bloom Tender + Freed From the Real = infinite mana, you (likely) win. Two cards. Dark Depths + Vampire Hexmage = you likely win, two cards. Splinter Twin + Village Bell-ringer = you win, two cards. Panoptic Mirror + Sundial of the Infinite + Final Fortune = you win, three cards.

And the fun thing with all of these is I don't have to hope for a goddraw + topdeck - these are combinations of cards you can work with during the game, that change everything when put together.

I stand by my assertion. Combos are small, efficient, and potentially game changing.
Date Posted: Wed Jan/23/13 at 5:49pm

Boyachi
Posts: 1553
Joined: 02-Nov-11

Game changing: the exact reason why I dislike planeswalkers. Making them mythic means nothing to people like us, only to children who only get a few packs a month and cards from trading with their friends in a similar boat.

There are great cheap combos (ex:CoP:B+Pestilence) and killer combos with killer cards (Today's being Omniscience+Tamiyo+random-other-card). Hell, knowing what I know now about reanimator, they should have never reprinted Akroma with what was standard during her release. Luckily for standard reanimator has gotten more mana-needy (especially with the absence of Dark ritual) so making monstrousities with matching mana costs pseudo means something (I'm looking at you Quicksilver Amulet) but planeswalkers are still often too obtrusive considering they are still consisting of just a single card. Levelling never seemed to have such a problem.
Date Posted: Wed Jan/23/13 at 11:59pm

Chewy
Posts: 841
Joined: 18-Jan-13

To add to the challenge, why not make it a mono colored combo with 20 cards? Lol. And it's completely possible, just can't think of any at the moment lol. But definitely coming up with one :)
Date Posted: Thu Jan/24/13 at 7:10am

flagshippredator
Posts: 101
Joined: 22-Dec-09

This challenge wasn't meant to actually be played. It was meant to stretch your imagination and see if it was possible.

By all definitions, I would view a combo as "a unique interactions between a series of cards that has a synergistic effect." This means any where between a 2-3 card combo or a string of cards that involve more cards than would even make the combo possible.

With this challenge I was hoping for some fun submissions that could help hone the jonny skills of the community. By honing these skills we'd be able to see combos that weren't out there before. Not the same ol' combos that's been posted on 3 sites before this one.

I do like the idea of trying to make it mono-colored. But I fear that would restrict the interactions between cards. I also assumed all the cards to be in play, so including ramp cards for it wouldn't be necessary.
Date Posted: Thu Jan/24/13 at 9:47am

Chewy
Posts: 841
Joined: 18-Jan-13

Okay. So, i'm gonna give it a go. But, with a twist. Since I mentioned the mono color thing, i'll try that, but i'll let you choose which color it's in. And the reason I said something about it was because someone could just post a hermit druid combo with multiple combos in it and run something like Xenograft and say a merfolk or spirit to combine it in the end to give it islandwalk or hexproof or something and it'd still be a legit 20 card combo. And in this case, it could be pulled off easily in commander. But like I said, if you don't mind to, i'll let you choose the color :)
Date Posted: Thu Jan/24/13 at 10:10am

flagshippredator
Posts: 101
Joined: 22-Dec-09

A 20 card combo in Mono-black.

I think it's do-able, but i'd like to see what you come up with.
Date Posted: Thu Jan/24/13 at 1:39pm

Academic
Posts: 1305
Joined: 29-Mar-12

e.e Still not a combo - just a synergic deck.
Date Posted: Sat Jan/26/13 at 12:00am

Chewy
Posts: 841
Joined: 18-Jan-13

Alright :). To make it more challenging, i'll only use one of each card. And with it being mono black, with or without artifacts? I should have a combo ready at some point tomorrow or the next day reguardless for both situations, but i'll see what I can do with your verdict :) 
Date Posted: Mon Jan/28/13 at 2:34pm

flagshippredator
Posts: 101
Joined: 22-Dec-09

@Academic: No... This challenge is more about designing a board-state that would use all 20 cards to do something. A deck is used to win the game using a synergistic set of similar cards in order to achieve the goal of winning a game.
Date Posted: Mon Jan/28/13 at 3:57pm

Academic
Posts: 1305
Joined: 29-Mar-12

That sure is an inference, mister.

Too bad it's wrong.
Date Posted: Mon Jan/28/13 at 4:02pm

Chewy
Posts: 841
Joined: 18-Jan-13

A graveyard strategy could work in any deck as long as its pulled off quickly and consistantly. So both of you are right to a certain extent
Date Posted: Mon Jan/28/13 at 5:33pm

Academic
Posts: 1305
Joined: 29-Mar-12

Ugh. 

All you're doing by encouraging the little idiot is promising us nothing but a front page full of "I'm self-important (but dumb!)" pseudo-challenges. Irrespective of your inference, stop promoting low standards.
Date Posted: Tue Jan/29/13 at 2:29am

Chewy
Posts: 841
Joined: 18-Jan-13

You amaze me
Date Posted: Tue Jan/29/13 at 6:54am

flagshippredator
Posts: 101
Joined: 22-Dec-09

Academic, I love how you decide to just say "You're wrong" as a valid argument. (That's your opinion.)

And secondly, if you're not interested in participating in the challenge don't post in the thread. It's a very simple solution.
Date Posted: Tue Jan/29/13 at 11:59am

Kefka
Posts: 535
Joined: 30-Oct-12

I think it's funny that an oriental Asian (Academic), is talking to someone about promoting low standards. Have you bought anything from an oriental country excluding Japan lately? IT'S GARBAGE!!! LOW STANDARDS!!! Felt it needed to be said. If your culture is prone to low standards, as the Philippines are, you have no place to tell other people to tighten theirs.
Date Posted: Tue Jan/29/13 at 12:42pm

DyingJester
Posts: 1771
Joined: 16-Dec-08

Hey now! I got my warhammer 40k models from a Japanese seller! They were made of actual pewter, unlike my fail american plastic models.

Though the tentacle rape face on my Deathleaper is a little...Odd...Cool, but there are no female space marines...so the implications are a little...creepy... e_e
Date Posted: Tue Jan/29/13 at 1:40pm

flagshippredator
Posts: 101
Joined: 22-Dec-09

I believe he included the clause "Except for Japan".
Date Posted: Tue Jan/29/13 at 2:44pm

DyingJester
Posts: 1771
Joined: 16-Dec-08

Ah...then I withdraw my statement...My apologies Kefka...