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Title: Safe Haven Questions
Date Posted: Mon Jun/11/12 at 10:34pm

Boyachi
Posts: 1553
Joined: 02-Nov-11

I'm sure that most of you have run into Safe Haven at one time or another.
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=107275
That or I'm just old.

1)My question goes as follows: If I stack the abilites so that sacrificing the land returns the exiled creatures before the exiling, can I get that creature back in play if I get the land back in play (and sac it again)?

2) If I have two Safe Havens and exile a creature with one and sac the other Haven, will the creature exiled by the Haven NOT sacrificed be brought back into play?

I think I've landed a pretty good combo, but I want to be sure it works the way I think it does before posting it (or try it).
Date Posted: Mon Jun/11/12 at 11:15pm

Skybreak22
Posts: 327
Joined: 01-Feb-10

I can answer the 2nd question......when you sac Safe Haven, regardless of how many you have in play, sacrificing that Safe Haven only returns the cards that particular Haven exiled. It would not apply to the others.
During play, I always put exiled cards face down directly under the Safe Haven to establish "ownership" so to speak. Kinda the same way a Jester's Scepter would work. One Scepter couldn't be used to counter a spell exiled by another Scepter. They each have their own "ownership".

As far as the 1st question....I'm not really sure what you mean by how you would stack the ability and get the Haven back to play again, and so forth. If you could clarify your intention it may be easier to answer. 
Date Posted: Tue Jun/12/12 at 6:35am

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

Is your question whether you can return creatures exiled with its ability after Safe Haven has left and returned to the battlefield?

If so, I believe that the answer to your first question is yes.
Date Posted: Tue Jun/12/12 at 6:42am

Academic
Posts: 1305
Joined: 29-Mar-12

Boyachi, I'm not going to assume to know what you were asking. Could you try restructuring your question, or maybe provide examples of what you're referring to?
Date Posted: Tue Jun/12/12 at 8:32am

Squillis
Posts: 424
Joined: 20-Nov-08

I think Boyachi was trying to use it in a similar way to the trick with O-Rings and Fiend Hunters.  If that's so then, no, you can't do that.  You need to look at the current oracle wording for Safe Haven to understand why.  Safe Haven says:

{2}, {T}: Exile target creature you control.

At the beginning of your upkeep, you may sacrifice Safe Haven. If you do, return each card exiled with Safe Haven to the battlefield under its owner's control.


The card has two abilities, the first is an Activated Ability (<Cost>:<Effect>) and the second is a triggered ability (<At/When/Whenever> <Condition>, <Effect>).  The first ability will only ever go on the stack when its owner has priority to play spells or activate abilities, announces activating it, and pays its cost.  The second ability, being a triggered ability, will always trigger when it's condition is met, though it is a 'may' ability so you can opt Not to sac it.  The two abilities also have something in common, they are what is called 'Linked Abilities'  That is they will only ever refer to each other.  If you use some convoluted method to give either ability to another creature it will Not tie in with any other abilities they may have.  If you give the First ability to a Duplicant with nothing imprinted you will Not get the bonus of having something imprinted to it.  If you give the Second ability to a Duplicant it Will return the creature if sacrificed.  The reason it will on the second ability is that it refers to 'Each card exiled with this' and not the 'Imprinted' card like the duplicant would use.

Knowing this info we can answer both questions:

1)Q. My question goes as follows: If I stack the abilites so that sacrificing the land returns the exiled creatures before the exiling, can I get that creature back in play if I get the land back in play (and sac it again)?

A. Because the second ability is a triggered ability with the trigger being the Beginning of your upkeep you must put it on the stack at the beginning of your upkeep before you have the chance to activate its activated ability.  You cannot manipulate the stack with this.  If you were to activate the ability in response to the trigger, the creature would be exiled, the sac trigger would go on the stack, you sac the land and the creatures return including the one you just exiled.  If the land leaves play some how before you can return the exiled cards you will Not be able to get it back with returning it or using another.  Whenever an object changes zones it is considered to be a new object with no memory of its previous existance.  This includes things that may have been exiled with that card before it changed zones.  As an example of this, if you had Safe Haven and Living Lands out and cast Cloudshift on Safe Haven, the Safe Haven would Not be able to return any creatures it exiled before the Cloudshift was cast, they would just stay in exile.

2)Q.  If I have two Safe Havens and exile a creature with one and sac the other Haven, will the creature exiled by the Haven NOT sacrificed be brought back into play?


A. No, this was pretty well answered with my reply to question 1.

Hope this covers all your concerns :)

Date Posted: Tue Jun/12/12 at 12:24pm

Boyachi
Posts: 1553
Joined: 02-Nov-11

The reason I was asking this was because I figured Safe Haven would blend well with Sneak attack, the question was whether I could bypass the RFG ETO from Sneak Attack. If I would have read Sneak Attack's errata instead of just Safe Haven's I might have found the answer.

Thank you for your help, everyone!
Date Posted: Tue Jun/12/12 at 1:01pm

Squillis
Posts: 424
Joined: 20-Nov-08

Sneak Attack does work with Safe Haven.  Sneak Attack your creature into play, after combat, use Safe Haven's ability to Exile the creature.  When your Upkeep comes around you can sac the Safe Haven to return the creature to the battlefield (this time without haste).  You won't get to swing 2 turns in a row, but you will get to have the same creature EtB 2 times which could set you up nicely with some powerful EtB triggers.  Just remember, if the Safe Haven is destroyed before you have the chance to sacrifice it (during the RESOLUTION of its ability) you won't be able to get the creature back without involving something that interracts with cards in Exile.
Date Posted: Tue Jun/12/12 at 5:22pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

You can also use Synod Sanctum.


[Edited by Turbine on 12/Jun/12 at 6:01PM]



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