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Zed-ucational programming

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PestilenceEnlarge

Pestilence

{2}{B}{B}

Enchantment

Classic Sixth Edition

Read rules for Pestilence
At the beginning of the end step, if no creatures are on the battlefield, sacrifice this enchantment. {B}: This enchantment deals 1 damage to each creature and each player.

Full card details & printings ›

Date Posted: Mon Sep/30/13 at 9:30 am

terakhan
Posts: 636
Joined: 24-Mar-13

Equip the Nested Ghoul with Pariah's Shield, get the Monument and Pestilence out, and let the fun fly (in more than one sense).

Each black mana spent through Pestilence will result in everything taking one damage, except for the Nested Ghoul which will take two. I am not really sure if this counts as it being dealt damage twice by the same source, but even if it doesn't, you get a zombie token.

With the Monument, you can protect your army, as well as get it in the air for more evasive combat.
Date Posted: Mon Sep/30/13 at 11:23am

Chewy
Posts: 841
Joined: 18-Jan-13

Because the damage is redirected through the shield, it would count as being hit twice, so youd get two zombie tokens per mana spent
Date Posted: Mon Sep/30/13 at 5:47pm

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

the ghoul cares about the source of the damage not the amount it was dealt. redirection only changes where its going not where its from. It might be two damage but it is the result of only 1 source. so only 1 token
Date Posted: Tue Oct/01/13 at 6:42am

knarf_the_dwarf
Posts: 1370
Joined: 30-Nov-11

Hmmh, I'm not sure about this. gericault, could you explain a Little more detailed maybe with reference to comprehensive rules?
- If I don't have the shield and activate the pestilence twice, I have 2 effects on the stack processed one after the other. Anything is clear, two effects on stack, two Tokens.
- If I have the shield and activate pestilence once, I create the damage dealing effects on the stack. On Resolution the damage from me is redirected to the Ghoul.
  - Is the damage dealt 1-1 to the Ghoul at the same time (simultanously) and therefore the Ghoul only "sees" 1 source?
  - Is the damage from pestilence source combined to a package of 2 damage from 1 source dealt to Ghoul?
  - Is it different to both Scenarios above?
My first thought was that I would agree to Chewy...
Date Posted: Tue Oct/01/13 at 4:14pm

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

sure
If I don't have the shield and activate the pestilence twice, I have 2 effects on the stack processed one after the other. Anything is clear, two effects on stack, two Tokens. --yes in this case two tokens because the ability was activated twice as new source of damage each time (gatherer rules for Restilence)
 If I have the shield and activate pestilence once, I create the damage dealing effects on the stack. On Resolution the damage from me is redirected to the Ghoul. --yes but it is the same damage, you are only moving where it goes, like with Shaman en kor.  This is a special type of continuous effect know as a replacement effect (think its rules 614 or 615).  The shield doesn't do anything to change the characteristics of the damage
 - Is the damage dealt 1-1 to the Ghoul at the same time (simultanously) and therefore the Ghoul only "sees" 1 source? Its not about when its dealt, rather both points of damage is dealt by the resolution of 1 ability, that ability has only 1 source (rule 112.7?)
- Is the damage from pestilence source combined to a package of 2 damage from 1 source dealt to Ghoul?  yes because its from the resolution of one ability (everything above)


[Edited by gericault5 on 1/Oct/13 at 4:16PM]