Title: Need Help For A Lifegain Combo

Date Posted: Thu Apr/15/10 at 11:15pm

--Nova--

Posts: 7
Joined: 15-Apr-10

Hello all, my first post on these forums.

Anyways, I've been working on a combo for extreme life gain using Sunbeam Spellbomb

And Auriok Salvagers

I realize there may be better combos out there but this is my first time working on a combo. What I'm trying to do is find a cheaper card which has the same "Return Artifact Card From Your Graveyard To Your Hand" effect and can be used repetitively with a card like Sunbeam Spellbomb. I'll take any suggestions you guys have to offer, thanks.

I'm new, no flaming please.

Date Posted: Fri Apr/16/10 at 12:01am

Skybreak22

Posts: 327
Joined: 01-Feb-10

If you're intent on trying this, then I might suggest Vedalken Mastermind. Sacrifice the Spellbomb, put the effects on the stack, before it goes away trigger the Mastermind's ability to return it to your hand before it resolves.

Date Posted: Fri Apr/16/10 at 12:40am

JMDin83

Posts: 880
Joined: 30-Jul-09

unfortunately that wont work as sacrificing is part of the cost of the ability, so it will be gone before the ability is on the stack

Date Posted: Fri Apr/16/10 at 1:07am

gericault5

Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

to be honest you probally have the best option for repeatable lifegain using sunbeam, as it is the easist to pull of each turn. for example leion squire can do it for cheaper but he will also need to be bounced each turn. Hanna is cheaper cost wise but more expensive when playing the ability, not to mention the 2/4 body is pretty nice.

your other option is to imprint one of the socories that does it onto panoptic mirror

Date Posted: Fri Apr/16/10 at 5:25am

Skybreak22

Posts: 327
Joined: 01-Feb-10

Ok, this is a bit off-subject here......but I really, really, really need some clarification on this.... I don't want to give improper information to someone like Nova, here.

When Mangara of Corondor came into standard, people were using his ability on the stack, then bouncing it back to their hand, to re-cast and re-use it's ability. I argued with several people to no end that this was an abuse of the stack but was told time after time that it was a legal play.

So, someone would use Mangara's ability to remove X permanent from the game, with its ability on the stack, cast something like Unsummon to bounce Mangara to their hand. The stack would resolve, returning Mangara, then checking for both targets of Mangara's ability. Seeing that Mangara is no longer an available target, it would still remove permanent X from the game.

So, given that I was told repeatedly that this was legal, I assumed that the stack worked this way for other abilities as well.

So, if the Spellbomb's ability was put on the stack, before it resolved, you bounce it to your hand......stack resolves.....Spellbomb returns to your hand, Spellbomb's ability resolves gaining you 5 life, though it is not an available target to "sacrifice".

Why does this not work? I just really need to understand this.....

Date Posted: Fri Apr/16/10 at 6:26am

Zark-the-Damned

Posts: 523
Joined: 24-Feb-10

There is a massive difference between Mangara of Corondor and Sunbeam Spellbomb.

Firstly you need to understand how abilities are worded. All Activated abilities take the form below-

COST : EFFECT

Everything before the : is the Cost of the ability. All costs must be met before the ability happens (paying Costs is part of playing the ability, after declaring targets and modes)

So for the Spellbomb, it has two abilities:
W, Sacrifice Sunbeam Spellbomb: You gain 5 life
1, Sacrifice Sunbeam Spellbomb: Draw a card

Assuming you are playing the first ability, you will announce you are using the ability, pay the white mana, and sacrifice the Spellbomb. This is all done immediately without using the stack. The 'Gain 5 Life' ability then goes on the stack, and assuming nothing else happens, resolves to give you 5 life.

Because the Spellbomb is sacrificed as a cost, you cannot then respond by returning it to your hand.

Mangara of Corondor is very, very different. His ability reads:
Tap: Remove Mangara of Corondor and target permanent from the game.

Note that the 'Remove Mangara of Corondor' is part of the effect, NOT the cost. The only cost is to tap Mangara.

This means that once the ability is on the stack, it doesn't matter what happens to Mangara, the ability will still happen.

For example, you could target an opponent's land, tap Mangara as a cost, and then Unsummon Mangara back to your hand. The land you targetted will still be exiled.

Also note that Mangara's ability only has one target - the permanent you wish to remove. If that permanent is no longer in play when the ability tries to resolve, it will be countered due to lack of target, and Mangara also stays in play (assuming you didn't already bounce him)

e.g. I tap Mangara, targetting your Island. You sacrifice the Island to Zuran Orb in response. The ability now has no target and is countered, so Mangara sticks around.

I hope this clears things up for you!