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melek\'s infinite counters

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HinderEnlarge

Hinder

{1}{U}{U}

Instant

Champions of Kamigawa

Read rules for Hinder
Counter target spell. If that spell is countered this way, put that card on your choice of the top or bottom of its owner's library instead of into that player's graveyard.

Full card details & printings ›

Date Posted: Thu Apr/18/13 at 11:51 pm

Chewy
Posts: 841
Joined: 18-Jan-13

Island is omniscience, mountain is melek, izzet paragon. With melek and omniscience out, hinder on top, counter a spell and let the copy counter hinder, sending hinder back to the top and the opponents cards at the bottom. If you draw it, cast it, countering itself to send it back at any time for an infinite counter spell combo.
Date Posted: Fri Apr/19/13 at 10:14am

Chewy
Posts: 841
Joined: 18-Jan-13

But does this work considering the copy is no longer the same spell, or when it counters itself would the first result resolve? Or should it be done in a different order?
Date Posted: Fri Apr/19/13 at 10:46am

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

no it does not work

1) a spell can not target itself. while the copy can target the orginal hinder, the orginal hinder needs to target the spell you want to counter, lets say lightening bolt.

2) the hinder copy will be the last spell to go on the stack which means it will resolve first. if it is targeting the orginal hinder it will counter the hinder, so hinder will not be there to counter its target. if the copy targets bolt, it will counter it, so the orginal hinder will fizzle for lack of target

so while it doent give infinate counters it does build up storm
Date Posted: Fri Apr/19/13 at 4:23pm

terakhan
Posts: 636
Joined: 24-Mar-13

Actually, it doesn't do that either. Storm only counts spells you cast. Copies placed directly on the stack don't add to it, or storm copies themselves would add to the numbers. And Melek makes direct copies when you cast from your library.

Further than that though, Omniscience specifically says 'from your hand', so does nothing here at all.


[Edited by terakhan on 19/Apr/13 at 4:25PM]
Date Posted: Fri Apr/19/13 at 5:54pm

knarf_the_dwarf
Posts: 1370
Joined: 30-Nov-11

A working combo with Melek can be found here: http://www.mtgcombos.com/view.php?fid=2&tid=68790 !-D
Date Posted: Fri Apr/19/13 at 6:26pm

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

i will concede omniscience, as i did not look it up when replying and forgot the hand clause. however, you are wrong about the not creating storm. if it was infinate mana instead of omniscience. you cast hinder targeting bolt, copy is created targeting hinder, the copy resolves returning hinder to top of library, cast hinder again targeting bolt again, copy targets hinder repeat. storm created by the continous casting of the orignal hinder not the copies created, basically the same as the combo knarf provided

[Edited by gericault5 on 19/Apr/13 at 10:17PM]




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