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Wish I play my library in one turn

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Djinn of WishesEnlarge

Djinn of Wishes

{3}{U}{U}

Creature — Djinn

Magic 2010

Read rules for Djinn of Wishes
Flying This creature enters with three wish counters on it. {2}{U}{U}, Remove a wish counter from this creature: Reveal the top card of your library. You may play that card without paying its mana cost. If you don't, exile it.

4/4

Full card details & printings ›

Date Posted: Mon Dec/03/12 at 7:46 am

knarf_the_dwarf
Posts: 1370
Joined: 30-Nov-11

The idea is to clean your library from lands and have only spells left. Use the Djinns ability to cast the top card for free and proliferate a wish counter on the Djinn.
If you have 2 Gemstone arrays or 2 Tides then this combo is working as it is.

You might rework the mana base utilizing some untap effects or similar to make it commander compliant.

Oracle of Mul Daya and Fastbond have the same effect as mana severance with respect to the cast lib in one turn.
Date Posted: Mon Dec/03/12 at 9:34am

Narcinek War-Rider
Posts: 1283
Joined: 16-Jun-11

Sorry. Inexorable Tide says when you CAST a spell.
Date Posted: Mon Dec/03/12 at 10:31am

Jesscrazy
Posts: 70
Joined: 30-Mar-11

Pretty sure that "play" equals "cast." Wording changes...
Date Posted: Mon Dec/03/12 at 10:54am

Narcinek War-Rider
Posts: 1283
Joined: 16-Jun-11

Yeah you're right.
Date Posted: Mon Dec/03/12 at 12:02pm

Boyachi
Posts: 1553
Joined: 02-Nov-11

I was under the impression that cast was in the attempt of having the spell resolve. You cast to play a spell but you do not play to cast a spell.

Example: if I attempt to Giant Growth my Titania's Chosen and you Counterspell the Giant Growth, my Titania's Chosen still gets a +1/+1 counter.
Second example: Here is the first line for Decree of Silence, straight from Gatherer: Whenever an opponent casts a spell, counter that spell.

It is weird, but you can tap mana, to cast a Leviathan from your hand. If it succeeds in entering the battlefield, you have played it. However, if you use Quicksilver Amulet to put it into play from your hand and the amulet's ability is not countered, Leviathan is considered to have been played, but not cast.

My question is: can you counter spells played by this Djinn...my gut says yes, my hand says stifle...
Date Posted: Mon Dec/03/12 at 12:35pm

Narcinek War-Rider
Posts: 1283
Joined: 16-Jun-11

I knew all of that. I just wasn't paying attention.
Date Posted: Mon Dec/03/12 at 2:51pm

knarf_the_dwarf
Posts: 1370
Joined: 30-Nov-11

First, the question whether "cast" equals "play" can be answered with yes. The rules are
601.1. Previously, the action of casting a spell, or casting a card as a spell, was referred to on cards as“playing” that spell or that card. Cards that were printed with that text have received errata in the Oracle card reference so they now refer to “casting” that spell or that card.
601.1a Some effects still refer to “playing” a card. “Playing a card” means playing that card as a land or casting that card as a spell, whichever is appropriate.

Second, The Djinns ability might be countered by stifle, this prevents also from revealing the top card of the library.
If the ability is not countered, then I reveal the top card and play it, now you can use your counterspell and the revealed card is put into the graveyard.

But back to the combo idea, what do you think using the Djinn in conjunction with proliferate and mana severance?
Date Posted: Mon Dec/03/12 at 8:02pm

Boyachi
Posts: 1553
Joined: 02-Nov-11

It can be played far quicker than Omniscience, that is for sure, plus it keeps the flow going. While not everything is necessary to the combo it still works well.
Date Posted: Wed Dec/12/12 at 7:00pm

me
Posts: 19
Joined: 01-Dec-12

This will not work ex. Angel's feather says when you cast a white speel gain a life. So if you cast a white, armada worm, l and your opponent counters it you still get the life. But you dont get the token because it never entered the battle field. Cast and Play are two different things. In this case you do not get to proliferate
Date Posted: Wed Dec/12/12 at 8:54pm

GoodGuyTyler
Posts: 202
Joined: 14-Mar-12

Uhh no... They had it right up top, it's just a phrasing change. Here's the rulings on Djinn:

10/1/2009: You play the revealed card as part of the resolution of Djinn of Wishes's ability. Timing restrictions based on the card's type (such as creature or sorcery) are ignored. Other play restrictions are not (such as "Cast [this card] only during combat").

10/1/2009: If the revealed card is a spell, you may cast it only if you can choose legal targets for it. If you cast it, it's put on the stack, then Djinn of Wishes's ability finishes resolving. The spell will then resolve as normal, after players get a chance to cast spells and activate abilities.

10/1/2009: If the revealed card is a land, you can play it only if it's your turn and you haven't yet played a land this turn.

And here's the important one:

10/1/2009: If you play a card "without paying its mana cost," you can't pay any alternative costs. You CAN pay additional costs, such as conspire costs and kicker costs.

Those additional costs are only available to be paid if you CAST the spell. If it was a matter of the card just entering the battlefield it would just say "put that card onto the battlefield," but since the Djinn also hits spells they had to make them cast. The rulings also state that after the Djinn's ability resolves, then the spell resolves as normal and is put on the stack for other players to respond to; if this wasn't cast then they wouldn't be able to counter it since it would be part of the Djinn's activated ability (excluding Stifle and the like).