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Is that Immortality Mark II

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Painter's ServantEnlarge

Painter's Servant

{2}

Artifact Creature — Scarecrow

Shadowmoor

Read rules for Painter's Servant
As this creature enters, choose a color. All cards that aren't on the battlefield, spells, and permanents are the chosen color in addition to their other colors.

1/3

Full card details & printings ›

Date Posted: Wed Oct/10/12 at 8:36 am

Boyachi
Posts: 1553
Joined: 02-Nov-11

Adapted from shakii23's combo.

Before there was a problem with the combo\'s Mycosynth Lattice messing with the combo\\\'s Emeria.

To put it simply:
Lands that would be controlled by opponents die.
Any spell that would be played, would not be able to be played.
No single thing can be targeted in this combo, aside from Privileged Position
No creatures can attack this combo
No destroy/damage/sacrifice effects will not work against this combo.

Okay, now break it.
Date Posted: Wed Oct/10/12 at 9:36am

theotherguy
Posts: 346
Joined: 04-Feb-11

It does have one hole- While you build this megabehemoth, I quietly play four Curse of the Bloody Tomes. This combo needs (aside from a way to speed it up) a Wheel of Sun and Moon-in my opinion, one of the best anti-mill cards and completely on color.
Date Posted: Wed Oct/10/12 at 10:00am

knarf_the_dwarf
Posts: 1370
Joined: 30-Nov-11

Put Ixidron with  Æther Vial into play. Then the immortal player doesn't have lands, too!-))

Any activated abilities of non-creature permanents are still allowed.I assumethat some mana for activation by artefacts is still available. Also triggered (etb) abilities by creatures are possible, maybe I put a clone into play choosing one of your legends...
Also non-targeting bouncing and exiling is possible. Kederekt Leviathan by Aether Vial or similar and Descent into Madness.
Date Posted: Wed Oct/10/12 at 5:14pm

spiderman1100
Posts: 354
Joined: 19-Apr-12

Mana Leak! Cancel! Counterspell! Stoic Rebuttal! Syncopate! Daze! Counterfux! Need I say more?
Date Posted: Wed Oct/10/12 at 6:50pm

sr819
Posts: 76
Joined: 17-Nov-11

simply put if u can get al those cards into play u deserve to win the game
Date Posted: Wed Oct/10/12 at 7:55pm

spiderman1100
Posts: 354
Joined: 19-Apr-12

IF
Date Posted: Wed Oct/10/12 at 8:20pm

Boyachi
Posts: 1553
Joined: 02-Nov-11

Aside from Cavern of Souls (Angels) and mana acceleration (like elves and Mirari's Wake) the deck still has room to run a bunch of permanent destruction, and believe you me, there is a whole lot that White/Green can run for permanent destruction:

Argentum Armor
Beast Within
Bramblecrush
Desert Twister
Fracturing Gust
Karmic Justice
Lux Cannon
Mold Shabler
Nevinryall's Disk
Oblivion Stone
Pentarch Paladin
Plague Boiler
Planar Cleansing
Quiet Disrepair
Ratchet Bomb
Rootgrapple
Saltblast
Soul Tithe
Spine of Ish Sah
Steel HellKite
Terastodon
Venomous Vines (?)
Winnow

What I'm really wondering is what is the most turmoil that Aether Vial could do. Are there any threats more lethal than Ixidron?
Date Posted: Thu Oct/11/12 at 12:01pm

shmogi
Posts: 220
Joined: 14-Dec-11

goddamit mana abilities are not activated.
Date Posted: Thu Oct/11/12 at 2:57pm

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

Yeah they are. The only difference is mana abilities resolve right away and dont use the stack
Date Posted: Thu Oct/11/12 at 6:55pm

spiderman1100
Posts: 354
Joined: 19-Apr-12

Only lands have static mana abilities.
Date Posted: Fri Oct/12/12 at 11:37am

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

no, lands have activated mana abilities. 

Activated abilities are written COST : EFFECT.  When you look at the abilities on lands you see they are written the same way, making them activated abilites.  Basic lands have the mana symbol on them, however, the mana symbol on basic lands represents the phrase  " Tap : Add (mana symbol) to your mana pool."

So if lands become creatures Linvala locks them down and prevents mana
Date Posted: Fri Oct/12/12 at 4:04pm

Kethiju
Posts: 225
Joined: 24-Jul-12

Let me repeat this. AHEM!!! Mycosynth Lattice, Apocolypse. Your combo is NOT unstoppable. Keep polishing that turd buddy.
Date Posted: Fri Oct/12/12 at 4:38pm

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

Kethiju- do you understand how this works? Once this combo is complete, apocalypse can't do anything to stop it.
Date Posted: Sat Oct/13/12 at 4:43pm

Cho_Kai
Posts: 8
Joined: 05-Oct-12

gericault5 - Most recent color changing effect makes all cards not in play colorless and nothing prevents untargeted exile effects.  What am I missing?
Also, I like the concept of giving this player control of Abyssal Persecutor... unless they have a sac engine somewhere in their remaining deck the game will be a draw ^_^


[Edited by Cho_Kai on 13/Oct/12 at 8:07PM]
Date Posted: Sat Oct/13/12 at 9:48pm

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

Most recent color changing effect makes all cards not in play colorless and nothing prevents untargeted exile effects. What am I missing?

as i mentioned, we are refering to once it is complete.  while building it is vulnerable to a number of things. But once its complete the most recent color changing effect is painters servent and the color chosen for that.  Iona then prevents spells such as the lattice or apocalypse. 

A simple march of the machines will prevent the artifact sources frm doing anything

 
Date Posted: Sun Oct/14/12 at 9:54am

Boyachi
Posts: 1553
Joined: 02-Nov-11

Not only does Iona + Painter's Servant block all of opponents' spells from being played, all of the opponents lands are destroyed. Even if you got a land in and tapped it for mana as it died, you'd still need five mana (that's 5 spirit guides, a combination of Elvish and Simian) to even get enough mana to cast Mycosynth Lattice, which you would not be able to cast anyways because Painter's Servant would make the Lattice Spell a color (aka this is before Lattice successfully lands on the battlefield, the artifact is still a spell and still a play toy for Painter's Servant) and Iona blocks it.

Yes, Apocalypse would mess things up, the point we are making is that there is no to play Mycosynth Lattice because you'd need to have a Lattice already in play to cast it and to cast that one you'd need one in play before that and so on and so on.

Good effort though.
Date Posted: Sun Oct/14/12 at 2:32pm

Kethiju
Posts: 225
Joined: 24-Jul-12

Ok, let's make you understand what Mycosynth Lattice really does. Painter's Servan for whatever color you like. Doesn't matter. Mycosynth Lattice itself is an artifact. There is more often than not an extremely good chance I'll have this in play before Iona, since Iona costs a huge amount of mana. Now, with Myscosynth Lattice in play, Iona is completelly useless. My lattice supercedes the painter, as it is the newest color effect in play. Since now everything in my deck is colorless, Apocolypse can be cast without worry of that irritatingly expensive and honestly, pointless angel. When apocolypse is cast, it exiles everything. Avacyn can't help you. So, now that we understand that Mycosynth Lattice is cheaper than Iona, Avacyn, Elesh Norn with a casting cost of 6, I have that ace in the hole. Apocolypse comes out the next turn and it's game over for your combo. If you want to go the way of the land argument, mana producing artifacts. There is NO way to stop me from doing what I want when I want to. No combo EVER imagined is unstoppable. Keep that in mind before you say you have immortality in this game.
Date Posted: Sun Oct/14/12 at 2:41pm

Kethiju
Posts: 225
Joined: 24-Jul-12

Just because I'm that kind of guy, I'll play a Barren Glory with an Oblivion ring on it BEFORE I cast Apocolypse. That way, not only do you lose your precious group of crap, I win the game because I'll only have Barren Glory on the battlefield without a hand.
Date Posted: Sun Oct/14/12 at 5:00pm

Boyachi
Posts: 1553
Joined: 02-Nov-11

@Kethiju
Ok, let's make you understand what Painter's Servant really does. Painter's Servant for whatever color you like. Doesn't matter. Mycosynth Lattice itself is an artifact. It will be an artifact of the color of my choice and blocked by Iona, since I picked the same color for her as I did Servant.

There is more often than not an extremely good chance I'll have this in play before Iona, since Iona costs a huge amount of mana. Now, with Myscosynth Lattice in play, Iona is completelly useless. My lattice supercedes the painter, as it is the newest color effect in play. Since now everything in my deck is colorless, Apocolypse can't be cast because you don't have any frikkin lands due to Living Plane and Elesh Norn.

So, now that we understand that Mycosynth Lattice is cheaper than Iona, Avacyn, Elesh Norn with a casting cost of 6, but the mistake that you made was that I only gave you a combo list, I did not give you a deck list. Do you honestly think if I was running a deck around this combo that I wouldn't be using an inkling of acceleration? Did you notice that I'm making webpages going over the best reanimator targets starting in Alpha and ending in Gatecrash (since I have plenty of work to do I assume that set will be out before I get to it)? You know what that means? I can Null brooch your Apocalypse...or just Counterbore it.

Just because I'm that kind of guy, I'll cast a disenchant on your Oblivion Ring in response to your Apocalypse.

If you read this thread, let alone the one prior to this, the challenge is to break the combo WHEN ALL OF THE PIECES ARE OUT. Otherwise you could just Counterbore Iona and the combo could never be pulled off. You could Meddling Mage Painter's Servant. You could Tinker a Mox Lotus and and Blaze me for 3,874,234,234 damage. We all understand that, please board the train, we are all waiting for you.
Date Posted: Sun Oct/14/12 at 11:36pm

Nickosis
Posts: 154
Joined: 31-Mar-12

Okay here is how you beat it:
1. Point to something nonexistent off to the side
2. When opponent with combo looks, dump the table over.
3. Look as confused as they do when they turn back around.
Date Posted: Mon Oct/15/12 at 3:59am

Kethiju
Posts: 225
Joined: 24-Jul-12

Then note that when you post the combo. Elesh Norn also costs 9 mana. Yeah, living plane would be irritating because lands will have summoning sickness. Once in play, the only real way to break the combo is to use suspended cards. Since they aren't cast from my hand, but from exile (have to check the ruling on that) Iona won't effect them. The trouble would be Avacyn. I seriously doubt there are any suspend spells that exile. Again, have to look. Next time though, post that the challenge is to break the combo once everything is in play. If I find an exiling suspend card, and the rulings state suspended cards are uneffected, then I will have broken the combo. Right now though, I would have to have the lattice in play after you cast the painter's servant.
Date Posted: Mon Oct/15/12 at 4:00am

Kethiju
Posts: 225
Joined: 24-Jul-12

That combo costs 54 mana total. Good god...why would anyone let that happen?
Date Posted: Mon Oct/15/12 at 10:21am

Boyachi
Posts: 1553
Joined: 02-Nov-11

As said again, this would probably run on Elvish Piper/Quicksilver Amulet/Reanimaton-effects and Replenish.

Otherwise, I'd never recommend playing such a deck. 90%+ of the time you'd end up losing (I'm assuming, I can throw this together in MagicWorkstation and see just how horrible it would be) and the other 10-or-less% you'd crush a n00b so hardcore that they'd probably end up quitting M:TG.

If suspend spells could still be played, then so too could flashback spells. That is sadly not the case. Thus doesn't matter quite as much as Suspend spells sure do love exiling, but they only exile theirselves (if they do any at all). Also once they stopped being suspended, they are "cast".

It should be noted however:
Iona's third ability includes permanent spells (artifacts, creatures, enchantments, and planeswalkers), not just instant and sorcery spells. It does not include lands or abilities (such as cycling or unearth).

This sounds good but the only cards with cycling that exile don't do so when they cycle. Decree of Pain would give all creatures -2/-2, but that only counters the bonus from Elesh Norn. (the other problem is gathering up the five mana landlessly, and ten mana to cycle it twice to make the preserver and lands die)

I don't really want this combo to work, that's why I was so surprised we broke the last one.

This brings up a good question: how many cards are there like Simian Spirit Guide? I'm wondering if there is a way to cycle a card to get an enchantment in play (I'm looking at Astral Slide) and then cycle Decree of Pain to flicker Elesh norn (or DoA and flicker Avacyn).
Hopefully someone can expand on this.

Edit: Not only do no cards like that exist yet (except for the cycle for 8 abomination that exiles two attacking creatures) There is no targetting because of Privileged Postion.


[Edited by Boyachi on 15/Oct/12 at 10:24AM]
Date Posted: Mon Oct/15/12 at 11:59am

Boyachi
Posts: 1553
Joined: 02-Nov-11

I've tested this  as a deck with four of each card, four Selesnya Guildgates and Elfhame Palace, and six forests and plains.
In the mirror match, the opponent's tenth turn it had me under Living Plane and Linvala. By sevententh turn It was able to swing with Avacyn, Linvala, and all else to end the game.

Now I'll make a version with acceleration and see what we get.
Date Posted: Mon Oct/15/12 at 1:18pm

Boyachi
Posts: 1553
Joined: 02-Nov-11

When using acceleration... the first mirror match, theopponent won turn twenty (it's tenth turn) after hard casting Avacyn and being able to swing with her and all the other indestructible/non-targetable/non-sacrificible creatures...that were all blue. I only got three mana, no mana acceleration, I with a fourth  I would have had all the enchantments in play and also gotten to play my quicksilver amulet...

Second mirror match was far more interesting. The opponent had the perserver, two Llanowar Elves, and a living plane. Having tapped out for Elvish Piper, I took a whooping five damage. Next turn I wiped their board by pipering Elesh Norn into play. This occured turn 9 (my fifth turn). Since I know for a fact that this deck is unable to recover from losing the ability to play lands (as most decks are) I called the game. I have never gotten to a point where I found that moxes were needed to keep a deck alive, but I'm not going to put them in, since, I'll never truly get my hands on them.

Third match ended at turn 15 (my eighth turn) with dual lands allowing the Piper to push out Elesh again, beefing itself up with the Painter's Servant (blue!) and dropping a Woodfall Primus.

Which brings me to my next possible loop hole. I tossed Primus in for permanent destruction and swapped out a Plains for Emeria, Sky Ruin.
Emeria is a triggere- Land that dies from Elesh Norn....well damn.
Date Posted: Wed Oct/17/12 at 9:53pm

Boyachi
Posts: 1553
Joined: 02-Nov-11

I knew Emeria, Sky Ruin could do it! It just needed the help of two more cards:
Serra (Vanguard) Hand and Life Modifier +1, creatures you control get +2/+2
Kederekt Kraken (Shards of Alara) Creature Leviathan 5/5,  When ~ ETB,  return all other nonland permanents to their owners' hands. Unearth 6U

Serra counters Elesh Norn's effect, and keeps your lands alive.
When you have Emeria, Sky Ruin and at least seven plains, the ability to return Kederekt Kraken "back" to the battlefield starts. Returning the entire combo to your opponents' hand. Do what you will after that to claim victory.

Just to put a damper on this, all this combo needs to do is to run Torpor Orb.

To sidestep Torpor Orb, I'd ressurect Bringer of the White Dawn instead.
Assuming that the combo counters by running Titania's Song...what would be the next step to defeating the combo, I feel like there is still a way through this outlet.
Using the Bringer to drop Arena of the Ancients into play would be a start...
But the combo can just add Tormod's crypt...


[Edited by Boyachi on 17/Oct/12 at 10:00PM]




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