Orim's ownage - MTGCombos.com

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Combo Name: Orim's ownage

Submitted By: Narcinek War-Rider

Card Name

Type

Cost

P/T

Editions (ordered by release)

Artifact

Instant

Artifact

Sorcery

Estimated Combo Cost: $18.10

Date Posted: Tue May/29/12 at 12:34 pm

Narcinek War-Rider

Posts: 1283
Joined: 16-Jun-11

Have Call to Mind Imprinted onto Mirror and Have Trumpet out. Play Orim's Chant kicked during your opponents turn, they get hit by Trumpet and during your upkeep play Call to Mind from Mirror to get Orim's Chant back and do it all over again.

Date Posted: Tue May/29/12 at 3:05pm

Dakkon Thued

Posts: 312
Joined: 15-Mar-10

why not just use the chant on Isochron scepter?

Date Posted: Tue May/29/12 at 5:48pm

Narcinek War-Rider

Posts: 1283
Joined: 16-Jun-11

Cause then you can't kick it.

Date Posted: Tue May/29/12 at 9:38pm

gericault5

Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

yeah you can

Date Posted: Tue May/29/12 at 9:44pm

Narcinek War-Rider

Posts: 1283
Joined: 16-Jun-11

No you can't. Scepter reads: COPY the imprinted spell and play the copy WITHOUT PAYING IT'S MANA COST. It's not the same as casting it.

Date Posted: Tue May/29/12 at 9:45pm

Narcinek War-Rider

Posts: 1283
Joined: 16-Jun-11

Plus there's the rule change of "Play means cast".

Date Posted: Tue May/29/12 at 11:28pm

lin sivvi

Posts: 1608
Joined: 14-Jan-10

12/1/2004: You don't pay the spell's mana cost. If the spell has X
in its mana cost, X is 0. You do pay any additional costs for that
spell. You can't use any alternative costs.

702.30a - Kicker is a
static ability that functions while the spell is on the stack. "Kicker
<-cost->" means "You may pay an additional <-cost-> as you
cast this spell." The phrase "Kicker <-cost 1-> and/or <-cost
2->" means the same thing as "Kicker <-cost 1->, kicker
<-cost 2->." Paying a spell's kicker cost(s) follows the rules
for paying additional costs in Rule 601.2b and Rule 601.2e through Rule 601.2g. [CompRules 2009/07/08]

Because kicker is an additional cost, you do have the opportunity to pay it, however you will have to pay 3 mana.

Date Posted: Wed May/30/12 at 12:04am

gericault5

Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

Thanks for that lin. going to expand on that alittle

Many players think that mana cost is the final payment that is made to cast the spell. But the reality is mana cost is what is printed in the top right, and nothing else.

To determine the final payment when casting a spell you use the following formula:

Mana cost (top right) plus additional costs minus cost reducers = final payment

A spell is considered cast and goes to the stack only after the final payment is made.

In the case of the scepter it makes the mana cost equal zero, but it doesn't change the formula, which now reads:

0 + additional costs - reducers = final payment

And since all casting allows the option for additional costs to be paid before it can go on the stack, you choose to pay the kicker so the formula is now (assuming no reducers)

0 + W - 0 = W

Pay the W as final payment, spell goes on the stack with the kicker.

Now 95% of the time, there are no additional costs or cost reducers so your final payment is equal to the mana cost ( mana cost + 0 - 0 = mana cost). Which is why most people think mana cost and final payment are the same thing.

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