Magic The Gathering Combos
Search Cards & Combos:

Home     Submit A Combo     Deck Builder     Forums     Picture Guess     Help

You are not logged in [click to login] - [Join For Free!]  





Forum Overview >> Combos
Combo Name: Shifty Razer Submitted By: Skybreak22
Card Name
Type
Cost
P/T
Editions (ordered by release)

Shifty Doppelganger
Creature - Shapeshifter 2U 1/1 Odyssey, Rare

Yosei, the Morning Star
Legendary Creature - Dragon Spirit 4WW 5/5 Champions of Kamigawa, Rare

Deadwood Treefolk
Creature - Treefolk 5G 3 / 6 Planar Chaos, Uncommon

Realm Razer
Creature - Beast 3RGW 4/2 Shards of Alara, Rare
Estimated Combo Cost: $8.00
Date Posted: Mon May/28/12 at 7:22 pm

Skybreak22
Posts: 327
Joined: 01-Feb-10

Didn't see this kind of combo up, so I thought I would share....
I would suggest using Training Grounds to reduce Shifty Doppelganger's cost.

Have Shifty Doppelganger in play.
At the beginning of your opponent's "untap step", use Shifty's ability to put Realm Razer into play, exiling all lands including yours.
Your opponent will have no mana during their turn. At the end of their turn, sacrifice the Realm Razer to return your Shifty to play.
At the beginning of your turn, your lands untap as normal.

This only needs to be done once, really. On your turn, use Shifty's ability to put Yosei into play, which you sacrifice at end of turn to continue your opponent's mana problems. Or you can return Realm Razor to your hand to Shifty-fy before their every untap step.

This gives you until your next turn to Shifty-fy a Deadwood Treefolk. Rotating two Treefolk will continuously return Razer or Yosei, and another Treefolk. So this becomes an endless rotation. Multiple Doppelgangers just add to the misery. You can also use Elvish Piper for this.

For synergy, throw in a few of these things for use with your Realm Razers...




Date Posted: Mon May/28/12 at 7:25pm

Skybreak22
Posts: 327
Joined: 01-Feb-10

Never mind the Windrider Eel.....landfall would happen at the end of "opponents" turn which makes this useless.
Date Posted: Tue May/29/12 at 8:27am

Squillis
Posts: 424
Joined: 20-Nov-08

Just as a note, you can't respond to your opponent's untap step, you can act no earlier than their Upkeep Step as no player gets priority during the untap step.  Because of this your opponent will still have the chance to float mana for a kill spell so you can't return the shifty.
Date Posted: Tue May/29/12 at 8:35am

Skybreak22
Posts: 327
Joined: 01-Feb-10

Given that every turn is separated into phases, although there is no priority at that point in time, Shifty's ability can be played as an instant which can occur at any time of my choosing. So upon passing the turn to my opponent, I wouldn't understand why I can't trigger Shifty's ability prior to my opponent untapping.
Date Posted: Wed May/30/12 at 7:46am

Squillis
Posts: 424
Joined: 20-Nov-08

Each turn is divided into phases, and most phases into steps.  You can only cast a spell or activate an ability at a time that the game allows you to.  Because one of the rules for the Untap Step within the Beginning Phase says you can't cast spells or activate abilities you will need to wait for the upkeep, see the rules below:

502. Untap Step

 

502.1. First, all phased-in permanents with phasing that the active player controls phase out, and all phased-out permanents that the active player controlled when they phased out phase in. This all happens simultaneously. This turn-based action doesn't use the stack. See rule 702.24, "Phasing."

 

502.2. Second, the active player determines which permanents he or she controls will untap. Then he or she untaps them all simultaneously. This turn-based action doesn't use the stack. Normally, all of a player's permanents untap, but effects can keep one or more of a player's permanents from untapping.

 

502.3. No player receives priority during the untap step, so no spells can be cast or resolve and no abilities can be activated or resolve. Any ability that triggers during this step will be held until the next time a player would receive priority, which is usually during the upkeep step. (See rule 503, "Upkeep Step.")

 

503. Upkeep Step

 

503.1. First, any abilities that trigger at the beginning of the upkeep step and any abilities that triggered during the turn's untap step go on the stack. (See rule 603, "Handling Triggered Abilities.")

 

503.2. Second, the active player gets priority. Players may cast spells and activate abilities.


As you can see by the text I bolded, the first chance for a player to cast a spell, even an instant, is during the Upkeep Step after triggers from the Untap Step and the beginning of the Upkeep Step have been placed on the stack.

If even wanted to find some back-alley way to give a player priority during the Untap Step you wouldn't because the line saying spells can't be cast and abilities can't be activated will override any other action.  In the game of magic, a "can't" (can't be cast/activated) always beats out a 'can':


101.2. When a rule or effect allows or directs something to happen, and another effect states that it can't happen, the "can't" effect takes precedence.

Example: If one effect reads "You may play an additional land this turn" and another reads "You can't play land cards this turn," the effect that precludes you from playing lands wins.

Date Posted: Wed May/30/12 at 3:51pm

Skybreak22
Posts: 327
Joined: 01-Feb-10

Right on. I was unaware of that ruling. The combo still works, and especially with Training Grounds in play, Shifty's ability cost would be so nominal that mana would be available to protect him, or to counter any response at the upkeep. I was just hoping to find a way to pull it off before mana was available to the opponent.  I appreciate the info, Squillis.
Date Posted: Wed May/30/12 at 9:04pm

lin sivvi
Posts: 1608
Joined: 14-Jan-10

PHASING BEATS ALL THE ABILITIES!!!
Date Posted: Thu May/31/12 at 7:51am

Squillis
Posts: 424
Joined: 20-Nov-08

well if you're looking to protect it you could always run with Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Teferi would prevent the opponent from being able to cast spells during their upkeep, but they'd still be able to activate abilities so they could stop the ability with something like Tormod's Crypt





Forum Overview >> Combos

©2006-2023 MTGCombos.com