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Infinite Turns

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Cauldron of SoulsEnlarge

Cauldron of Souls

{5}

Artifact

Shadowmoor

Read rules for Cauldron of Souls
{T}: Choose any number of target creatures. Each of those creatures gains persist until end of turn. (When it dies, if it had no -1/-1 counters on it, return it to the battlefield under its owner's control with a -1/-1 counter on it.)

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Date Posted: Wed May/23/12 at 7:12 pm

gdamatov77
Posts: 11
Joined: 23-May-12

The first requirement besides the three cards are any 5 artifact creature cards that are allowed to have counters placed on them.

With Steel Overseer, Cauldron of Souls, and Time Sieve on the battlefield, none of which are tapped, start the combo with Cauldron of Souls.

Tap Cauldron of Souls to give all 5 of the artifact creatures persist. (If you have more, give all of them persist if you want.)

Tap Time Sieve to sacrifice the 5 artifact creatures with persist to gain a turn after this one.
The 5 creatures die, persist responds, and brings them all back with a -1/-1 counter on each.

Tap Steel Overseer to add a +1/+1 counter to all artifact creatures you control.

Due to Rule 121.3:
which states:

"If a permanent has both a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on it, N +1/+1 and N -1/-1 counters are removed from it as a state-based action, where N is the smaller of the number of +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters on it. See rule 704."

In response to Rule 121.3, both counters get removed, and the creatures lose the -1/-1 counters on them. Thus allowing them, if you would like, to use something that can kill them off again. If they do die, they will return with -1/-1 counters on them once again because it is the same turn that you activated Cauldron of Souls.

Since Time Sieve's cost has been paid, you are rewarded with the ability to "Take an extra turn after this one." In which case, when you are finally done with your turn, if you want to cast something else, or attack, or do whatever it is you plan on doing with that turn, after your end step, you go straight to your Beginning Phase.

And thus start your turn over again. In response to the Beginning Phase, your creatures and all other cards, (lands included), get to untap, and you may do the ability once again, allowing for yet another turn. Not to mention that the Steel Overseer is constantly buffing all other artifact creatures you control waiting for the final swing you want to take to end the game.

Pros:
Lockdown the game for the opponent giving you infinite turns.
Infinitely buff up all artifact creatures save for the 5 you decide to sacrifice each turn.

Cons:
Can draw through your cards faster than normal. Thus making this combo weak to Mill decks.

Strengths:
Non-Control, Non-Mill, Non-Enchant, and Non-Curse decks

Weaknesses:
Control, Mill, Enchant, and Curse decks

Requirements:
Steel Overseer, Cauldron of Souls, Time Sieve, and 5 artifact creatures on the battlefield when the combo starts.

NOTE:
In order to make it infinite turns, you must ensure that you have 5 artifact creatures besides Steel Overseer for this combo to be infinite. If they are any artifacts, the combo cannot be infinite.

[Edited by gdamatov77 on 23/May/12 at 7:15PM]

[Edited by gdamatov77 on 23/May/12 at 7:15PM]
Date Posted: Wed May/23/12 at 7:50pm

spiderman1100
Posts: 354
Joined: 19-Apr-12

With two overseers, the artifacts gradually get bigger... and bigger... and bigger...

Necropotence will ensue you don't mill yourself. Still UB
Date Posted: Thu May/24/12 at 7:52am

Squillis
Posts: 424
Joined: 20-Nov-08

Just a couple technical corrections here.  The creatures that come back from the persist do Not still have persist.  This is because whenever a permanent changes zones it loses all memory of its previous existence which includes abilities granted by non-continuous effects.  This shouldn't have a big effect of the game because you would have already set yourself up for another turn.  Also, the Beginning of Turn phase has three steps, the Untap, Upkeep, and Draw steps.  You don't respond to the beginning of the phase, you just do what you can during each step.  During the Untap step you untap all permanents that are tapped as long as there are not restrictions against it or chances to opt out of it.  Next, first thing during the Upkeep step if there were triggers for things that triggered "At the beggining of you/the next/every upkeep" and "whenever <a permanent/permanent type> becomes untapped" they go on the stack and then you can respond to the triggers by casting spells/activating abilities.  Otherwise it looks good, just a couple minor technical fixes :)
Date Posted: Thu May/24/12 at 9:29am

Boyachi
Posts: 1553
Joined: 02-Nov-11

No, the creatures sacrificed would NOT get bigger, they'd be sacrificed and return with no +1/+1 counters.

I argue the statement about this being weak against mill decks. Even Jace's Erasure depends on the opponent drawing, which requires things like a turn, or untapped mana (which they can't typically replenish unless they have a turn) the biggest concern from mill that immediately comes to mind would be Mesmeric Orb. I recommend dealing with this the same way I deal with Grafdigger's Cage in my Reanimator Deck: Powder Keg or Steel Hellkite (both artifacts).
Date Posted: Thu May/24/12 at 11:52am

gdamatov77
Posts: 11
Joined: 23-May-12

In response to Squillis,

I never said they keep their persist when they die and then come back. What happens is, on the next turn you take, all three of these artifacts are untapped because of "Untap step" at the beginning of the Beginning Phase.
So Cauldron of Souls untapping at the beginning of the turn, allows for the combo to be activated yet again.

In response to Boyachi,

I never said the sacrificed artifact creatures keep their counters. What I said was "all creatures SAVE for the 5 you sacrificed."

Which means all artifact creatures get the +1/+1 counters except for the 5 that you sacrificed. That is what "save" means in this context.

Also Boyachi, the mill would be a big deal if the opponent had started to mill you prior to you getting this ability started. It is minimum 5 mana requirement because of Cauldron, but mill can make a huge mess of this combo if milling started prior to the combo activating.

Only reason I bring mill into the picture is because I used to run a modern mill deck which was very fun, but since decided to break it so i can get my EDH deck started.

Reaper king scarecrows and artifacts FTW. This combo is for that deck, imagine sacking 5 scarecrows, keep destroying all permanents opponent controls.

Almost done with the deck build as well. Took me 3 months to put together the deck and figure out which cards I wanted. Might upload it eventually somewhere.




[Edited by gdamatov77 on 24/May/12 at 11:58AM]

[Edited by gdamatov77 on 24/May/12 at 11:59AM]
Date Posted: Thu May/24/12 at 8:55pm

americanwerewolf
Posts: 79
Joined: 23-Dec-11

2 card infinite turn combo. Time sieve and thopter assembly.
Sac the tokens to the sieve.
Date Posted: Thu May/24/12 at 9:09pm

gdamatov77
Posts: 11
Joined: 23-May-12

To Izztranlyn,

My friend told me about that the other day. The only reason I posted this combo was because it allows for a constant buff of artifact creatures. With thopter assembly, you do not get the counters you would get with steel overseer.
Date Posted: Thu May/24/12 at 10:07pm

americanwerewolf
Posts: 79
Joined: 23-Dec-11

I'll admit steel overseer is a cool card, but a "drawback" is that you have to tap to use it's ability. If you have unwinding clock then it can be quite dangerous.

The enchantment that gives extra upkeeps is paradox haze (nifty with 3 of them and jhoira of the ghitu).

Another 2-card infinite turn combo is: panoptic mirror and time warp.

[Edited by Izztranlyn on 24/May/12 at 10:09PM]
Date Posted: Thu May/24/12 at 10:30pm

gdamatov77
Posts: 11
Joined: 23-May-12

I see what your getting at with unwinding clock, as I have that card set for my EDH deck, which these cards are set to go in, however, please recall that once you start the combo, you lock the field and it never comes to the opponents untap step.

Unless the opponent has a way to cast an instant that will deactivate, or kill the fieldlock, you are set. To which Teferi is perfect because all 4 cards is pretty much a fieldlock. The only way for an opponent to unlock the field once the 4 card combo starts, is that they need a specific card already in play that can be used to stop the combo.

As for steel overseer, remember that with every new turn, he untaps anyway. So because he untaps, all the counters given to the nonsacrificed creatures stay, and when he is activated again, they get another counter on them as well when you do the second turn in the combo.

And again, and again, and again.
It is a fieldlock once the combo starts along with a counter buff for all artifact creatures save for 5.
Date Posted: Sat May/26/12 at 5:27am

spiderman1100
Posts: 354
Joined: 19-Apr-12

To Boyachi,

Necropotence is just there so you don't mill YOURSELF by drawing out the deck. It also lets you dig for the combo pieces.