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Mycosynth LatticeEnlarge

Mycosynth Lattice

{6}

Artifact

Darksteel

Read rules for Mycosynth Lattice
All permanents are artifacts in addition to their other types. All cards that aren't on the battlefield, spells, and permanents are colorless. Players may spend mana as though it were mana of any color.

Full card details & printings ›

Grand ArchitectEnlarge

Grand Architect

{1}{U}{U}

Creature — Vedalken Artificer

Scars of Mirrodin

Read rules for Grand Architect
Other blue creatures you control get +1/+1. {U}: Target artifact creature becomes blue until end of turn. Tap an untapped blue creature you control: Add {C}{C}. Spend this mana only to cast artifact spells or activate abilities of artifacts.

1/3

Full card details & printings ›

Date Posted: Wed Jan/04/12 at 1:36 pm

Jwrights
Posts: 45
Joined: 24-Nov-11

i think that i can use the grand arch to turn my myr into a blu creature for one turn then tap all the artifacts and at the beginning of my next turn i tap the myr to untap the switch using the filigree sages ability
Date Posted: Wed Jan/04/12 at 1:55pm

Overdark
Posts: 29
Joined: 30-Dec-11

How do you untap your Myr?  Even though he is a blue creature, he's still an artifact creature and would get tapped by the Killswitch, so he would still be tapped at the beginning of your next turn.  Maybe I missed something?
Date Posted: Wed Jan/04/12 at 1:57pm

Jwrights
Posts: 45
Joined: 24-Nov-11

I WAS THING THAT THE MYR WOULD STOP BEING AN ARTIFACT AND JUST BE BLUE AND THEREFOR NOT TAP AT ALL
Date Posted: Wed Jan/04/12 at 2:07pm

PinkiePie
Posts: 157
Joined: 10-Sep-11

No! Artifact is the creature supertype, it has nothing to do with color! If you used tezzeret or unwinding clock it would work!

[Edited by PinkiePie on 4/Jan/12 at 2:07PM]
Date Posted: Wed Jan/04/12 at 2:10pm

Overdark
Posts: 29
Joined: 30-Dec-11

Unfortunately for your combo, that's not how it works.  Your Filigree Sages are actually a quick example of a blue artifact creature.  The other thing is that your Mycosyth Lattice would have made sure that your Myr is an artifact creature anyways.  You could try something more simple like a Twiddle to untap your Kill Switch, however.  Since you're using Mycosyth Lattice and Kill Switch together, it would be difficult to use a permenant to untap your Kill Switch.  Casting a simple spell like Twiddle from your hand, however, would be easy.  (I think that there are also a couple of Twiddle variants too)  This would also stream line your combo down to 3 cards, making it easier to play.  You just need to make sure that you include something to hit your opponent hard with when he's all locked up.  Hope that helps...
Date Posted: Wed Jan/04/12 at 2:59pm

Overdark
Posts: 29
Joined: 30-Dec-11

Pinkie's suggestions of Tezzeret the Seeker and Unwinding are decent ones because even though they'll both be tapped like all other permenants in play, their abilities do not require tapping to activate.  However, there are still timing issues with both cards.  Unwinding Clock would untap all of your artifacts (including Kill Switch) during your opponents untap phase, which would undo what you're trying to accomplish and allow him/her to untap their stuff.  (Unless there are specific rules to the untap phase concerning order that I'm not aware of)  Tezzeret's ability needs to be activated during your main phases, so you have to think about the timing there too.  Since you cannot activate Tezzeret's ability during your untap phase, you're stuck with the Kill Switch tapped when you want it untapped and you don't want to untap it during your main phase since your stuff would just stay tapped.  Even a Twiddle would take timing considerations to cast now that I think of it because you'd need to have an untapped island to cast it with.  You'd have to make sure that you played an island AFTER you activated the Kill Switch so that you'd have it available for mana on your next turn during your upkeep so you could cast your Twiddle.  Then you have to have another island in hand and another twiddle in order to do it again next round.  Althought it's fun to lock up all of your opponent's resources, I'm not really seeing an easy way to pull this one off for an extended amount of time.
Date Posted: Wed Jan/04/12 at 3:07pm

Jwrights
Posts: 45
Joined: 24-Nov-11

the timeing issue is something im concerned with i was trying to find a way around it
Date Posted: Wed Jan/04/12 at 3:10pm

Overdark
Posts: 29
Joined: 30-Dec-11

NEVERMIND!  This is actually much easier than all of us thought.  Kill Switch untaps regularly during your untap phase since it does not say that you may choose not to untap it.  (see Wizard's errata: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=22318)  In other words, you don't need to worry about untapping it since it does it on your turn anyways and allows you to untap your stuff.  You just need to tap it before your opponents untap phase, like at the end of your 2nd main phase after you've sent your stuff over.  Now it's down to a simple 2 card combo, and you could even play a 5 color deck if you wanted since everything is colorless.  I like it.
Date Posted: Wed Jan/04/12 at 3:15pm

Overdark
Posts: 29
Joined: 30-Dec-11

Actually, the explaination is in the card's text too since it says "Tap all OTHER artifacts.  THEY don't untap during their controller's untap phase as long as Kill Switch remains tapped."  I think the wording "remains tapped" is what throws us all off.  It should have just said "is tapped".
Date Posted: Wed Jan/04/12 at 3:26pm

Jwrights
Posts: 45
Joined: 24-Nov-11

NO THE ISSUE IS THAT WHEN IT GETS TO BE MY TURN TO UNTAP IS THE KILL SWITCH IS TAPPED I CANT UNTAP EVERYTHING ELSE ONLY THE SWITCH

WHAT IF I TAP IT DURING MY TURN USE UNWINDING CLOCK TO UNTAP EVERYTHING TAP LAND TO ADD 5 MANA PAY 2 TO TAP THE SWITCH DURING THEIR UNTAP PHASE THE USE THE LEFT OVER 3 TO UNTAP IT AT THE END OF THEIR MAIN PHASE WITH Filigree Sages?
Date Posted: Wed Jan/04/12 at 3:31pm

PinkiePie
Posts: 157
Joined: 10-Sep-11

OR YOU COULD JUST USE UNWINDING CLOCK AND TAP ALL ARTIFACTS DURING THEIR UPKEEP!

HERP DERP HOW DO I CAPS LOCK!
Date Posted: Wed Jan/04/12 at 3:34pm

Overdark
Posts: 29
Joined: 30-Dec-11

The Kill Switch untaps REGULARLY during your untap phase, so since it doesn't "remain" tapped, you get to untap all of your stuff.  It's much simpler than we were all making it.  Click on the link to the Wizard's site that I posted.

BTW - I just discovered that this combo was previously posted, so we'll just have to chalk this entire thread down to a thinking excercise.
Date Posted: Wed Jan/04/12 at 3:39pm

Overdark
Posts: 29
Joined: 30-Dec-11

NEVERMIND AGAIN!  I didn't realize that you only determine what objects to untap once.  Bummer...
Date Posted: Wed Jan/04/12 at 4:28pm

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

Ok let me simplify things.
1). On any turn before you untap you need to determine what can untap. Once these items are determined it is a lock. They will be the only things that untap. When it is your turn kill switch is the only thing that can be untapped everything else is locked because of kill switch. The fact kill switch becomes untap doesn.t change that.

2) opponents turn. Switch tapped. Clock on field. Your opponent will determine that nothing of his can be untapped because of the switch.
You on the otherhand can untap everything not because of the clocks ability but because kill switch doesn't affect you because it has the text "during their controllers untap". And its not your untap

[Edited by gericault5 on 4/Jan/12 at 4:30PM]




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