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Combo Name: Does this Work? Submitted By: TheCaptain
Card Name
Type
Cost
P/T
Editions (ordered by release)

Dark Depths
 Legendary Snow Land Coldsnap, Rare

Living Plane
 Enchant World 2GG Legends, Rare

Melira, Sylvok Outcast
 Legendary Creature - Human Scout 1G 2/2 New Phyrexia, Rare
Estimated Combo Cost: $34.53
Date Posted: Mon Oct/24/11 at 11:40 pm

TheCaptain
Posts: 909
Joined: 13-Apr-11

So we know that Melira can prevent counters on creatures that come into play with them, my question is if living plane will make Dark Depths a creature in time, or if its just affected once it comes into play. I don't think this works, but I figured I'd see if anyone knew the ruling on it.
Date Posted: Tue Oct/25/11 at 12:01am

Twogunkid
Posts: 2609
Joined: 22-Jan-10

I don't think so as dark depths enters as a land and then becomes a creature by the state based effect. In the hand it is only treated as a land, so my gut says no.
Date Posted: Tue Oct/25/11 at 12:16am

Akinas86
Posts: 327
Joined: 16-Jun-10

and to add on, melira specifically says which counters she prevents and ice counters are none of those...i think
Date Posted: Tue Oct/25/11 at 12:26am

TheCaptain
Posts: 909
Joined: 13-Apr-11

No your right, I thought that Melira said no counters on your creatures at all, not just -1/-1
Date Posted: Tue Oct/25/11 at 7:23am

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

If there was a card that had an ability like Melira except that it worked with Dark Depths, would it work though?
Date Posted: Tue Oct/25/11 at 1:34pm

darthnefas
Posts: 1081
Joined: 04-Apr-11

But wouldn't this work with Torpor Orb since it's a creature when it comes into play?
Date Posted: Tue Oct/25/11 at 1:40pm

TheCaptain
Posts: 909
Joined: 13-Apr-11

Its not a comes into play trigger, thats why Torpor Orb doesn't work regardless of what you turn Dark Depths into. The reason I thought Melira was because her counter prevention can stop cards that say "comes into play with -1/-1 counters on it". I just forgot that it was only -1/-1 counters.
Date Posted: Tue Oct/25/11 at 3:15pm

PinkiePie
Posts: 157
Joined: 10-Sep-11

Doesnt work! Wouldnt work with torpor orb either! Wouldnt work even if melira said counters in general, because it comes into play with the counters, they arent placed on it!
Date Posted: Tue Oct/25/11 at 3:17pm

TheCaptain
Posts: 909
Joined: 13-Apr-11

PinkiePie, thats actually not true. Melira does stop creatures who have "this creature comes into play with -1/-1 counters on it" from getting any counters. We all know she works with persist, and thats what persist says in its reminder. The question at hand is, assuming Melira stopped all counters, would Dark Depths become a creature soon enough, or would it be to late for Melira's effects to take hold?
Date Posted: Tue Oct/25/11 at 3:55pm

Draco_lich
Posts: 1073
Joined: 07-May-10

does not work, it say "comes into play with" so the counters are there technically before it enters play (if one wants to be a rules stickler)
Date Posted: Tue Oct/25/11 at 6:12pm

TheCaptain
Posts: 909
Joined: 13-Apr-11

I swear we've had this discussion before, regarding Etched Monstrosity and Melira. "Comes into play with" is a replacement effect so torpor orb does nothing. But you still have to put the counters on it, and Melira prevents that. So anything that says "comes into play with -1/-1 counters" comes into play with NO counters if Melira is in play under your control. I am entirely positive about that.

So this doesn't work because I forgot Melira prevented only -1/-1 counters. But my question remains: would living plane affect Dark Depths in time if Melira prevented all counters from creatures? Is there a ruling on this somewhere?
Date Posted: Wed Oct/26/11 at 5:20pm

Dakkon Thued
Posts: 312
Joined: 15-Mar-10

LISTEN! as far as I know, Dark depths will have the counters when it enters play.  it doesn't get them when it comes in, and they have to be on there when u play it.  they can be removed.  that's the only way to get ur marit lage.
Date Posted: Wed Oct/26/11 at 8:01pm

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

I swear we've had this discussion before, regarding Etched Monstrosity and Melira. "Comes into play with" is a replacement effect so torpor orb does nothing. But you still have to put the counters on it, and Melira prevents that. So anything that says "comes into play with -1/-1 counters" comes into play with NO counters if Melira is in play under your control. I am entirely positive about that.


You are right on both accounts we have had this discussion and melira prevents a creature from entering play with a -1 counter, that is why melira with persist is so good

But my question remains: would living plane affect Dark Depths in time if Melira prevented all counters from creatures? Is there a ruling on this somewhere?

Living plane has a static ability that generates a continuos effect turning lands into creatures,  And continuous effects that modify a permanents characteristics do so simiultanously with the permanent entering the battlefield, as a result of this Dark Depths enters the battlefield as a creature. (rule 611.3c), so since it enters as a creature melira would prevent the counters if she prevented all counters. (rule112.h and 121.6)


 
Date Posted: Wed Oct/26/11 at 8:39pm

TheCaptain
Posts: 909
Joined: 13-Apr-11

Thanks Gericault, that's the answer I've been looking for.
Date Posted: Thu Oct/27/11 at 3:05am

xvmileycyrus
Posts: 108
Joined: 29-Sep-11

exactly, melira says -1 counters PLACED on them. If they come into play with them on it, it keeps them. Its not like if you have melira out and you play etched monstrosity, etched monstrosity comes in as a 10/10, thats not how it works.
Date Posted: Thu Oct/27/11 at 1:15pm

TheCaptain
Posts: 909
Joined: 13-Apr-11

Miley, you clearly are not reading the posts. Melira prevents the counters from coming in on Etched Monstrosity. That's it. Nothing more to it. Its the same way that she prevents creatures with persist from returning with -1/-1 counters. Even if a card says that it enters play with them on, at some point the counters would be physically placed on the card, which Melira prevents.



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