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elementary

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HostilityEnlarge

Hostility

{3}{R}{R}{R}

Creature — Elemental Incarnation

Lorwyn

Read rules for Hostility
Haste If a spell you control would deal damage to an opponent, prevent that damage. Create a 3/1 red Elemental Shaman creature token with haste for each 1 damage prevented this way. When Hostility is put into a graveyard from anywhere, shuffle it into its owner's library.

6/6

Full card details & printings ›

Date Posted: Tue Oct/11/11 at 4:13 pm

darthmikhail
Posts: 28
Joined: 06-Oct-11

3/1 w/trample ftw!!!
Date Posted: Tue Oct/11/11 at 4:14pm

darthmikhail
Posts: 28
Joined: 06-Oct-11

ok, wait before this gets worse does that work if hostility prevents the damage to make the tokens? dang it...
Date Posted: Tue Oct/11/11 at 7:34pm

Pal-of-Lim-Dul
Posts: 1148
Joined: 24-May-10

Hook yourself up with Doubling Season or Parallel Lives and you're good to go...
Date Posted: Wed Oct/12/11 at 1:33pm

Torto
Posts: 148
Joined: 25-Jun-11

Yeah, don't work since the damage is prevented as you said ^.^
But I think Pal gived the new possibilities already for this.
Date Posted: Wed Oct/12/11 at 2:00pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

Since they are both "if" clauses, are you allowed to order how they resolve?
Date Posted: Wed Oct/12/11 at 2:11pm

lin sivvi
Posts: 1608
Joined: 14-Jan-10

pretty sure this works
Date Posted: Wed Oct/12/11 at 2:16pm

Torto
Posts: 148
Joined: 25-Jun-11

Now you guys confused me! :P
Date Posted: Wed Oct/12/11 at 2:19pm

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

hostility only prevents the damage from the spell.  the 3 damage from the bolt is prevent and 3 3/1 come into play instead.  since they have haste that is 9 damage to the opponent.  the tokens damage is not prevented oh and they don't have trample

Since damage is not dealt it would not be doubled by the servent


@turbine-the "if" aspect doesn't matter for ordering, they are replacement effects and don't use the stack.  instead they are applied in timestamp order, so if the season was in play first it would replace the 3 hostility tokens with 6, and then the lives replacement is applied replacing seasons effect with its own for 12 tokens


[Edited by gericault5 on 12/Oct/11 at 3:18PM]
Date Posted: Wed Oct/12/11 at 2:45pm

Torto
Posts: 148
Joined: 25-Jun-11

@gericault: I was thinking that the part of the combo of double the damage wouldn't work since the damage is prevented, not the entirely combo. But in anyway, I was wrong. thanks for correct me.
Date Posted: Wed Oct/12/11 at 3:17pm

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

Actually rereading my response you are the correct one.  the servents replacement affect would never occur since no damage is dealt, it would only be 3 tokens.

modified my previous posts

@turbine-I'm realizing you are probally revering to the "if''s in hostility and the servent rather then season and lives.  So to answer that, you don;t control the order, nor does timestamp matter because they do not occur at the same time,  hositily's replacement affect has to occur before damage is dealt while the servents occurs when damage is dealt. 


[Edited by gericault5 on 12/Oct/11 at 3:43PM]
Date Posted: Wed Oct/12/11 at 8:14pm

darthmikhail
Posts: 28
Joined: 06-Oct-11

i will go so far as to attempt to argue this point. Each card clearly states "IF", not "when".
if it would, not when it does.
i think the potential damage is doubled. fire servant states if and when and its affect should resolve first, so if spell damage would be dealt, its doubled, but prevent all of that damage. at least thats i how want it to work...ideally. not always so, and i feel some of us are torn one way or another. ok, well at least i am. call it denial if you want, but id like to think that 6 3/1 red elemental tokens with haste produced by a "semi-fizzled" 2 cost direct damage spell is only a somantic blockage away...sigh
Date Posted: Wed Oct/12/11 at 9:02pm

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

Its understandable on why you think it works that way, and you have every right to question what I wrote, I'm only human and do make mistakes sometimes.  Here are some rules to support why it doesn't work the way you would like.

700.1. Anything that happens in a game is an event.

615.4. Prevention effects must exist before the appropriate damage event occurs—they can’t “go back in time” and change something that’s already happened.

614.7. If a replacement effect would replace an event, but that event never happens, the replacement effect simply doesn’t do anything.

 

614.7a If a source would deal 0 damage, it does not deal damage at all. Replacement effects that would increase the damage dealt by that source, or would have that source deal that damage to a different object or player, have no event to replace, so they have no effect.

Don't know why it did the weird formatting.  Anyway, the event in question is the damage event from the lighting bolt.  As 615 says, prevention has to occur before the damage event occurs, ie before damage is dealt.  So now the damage is 0, so there is no damage event so nothing to replace.

Also it can't use the word "when" because that will make it a trigger ability rather then a replacement effect, which will totally change the effect,  So the word "if" is used to prevent that.  Think of a replacement effect having this phrase --"if this happens do this instead"
Date Posted: Thu Oct/13/11 at 10:00pm

darthmikhail
Posts: 28
Joined: 06-Oct-11

well citeting the  rules shuts me up. this is my favorite part of the game.