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poor mans magic

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Date Posted: Mon Oct/10/11 at 9:21 pm

darthmikhail
Posts: 28
Joined: 06-Oct-11

it  is what it is
Date Posted: Mon Oct/10/11 at 11:21pm

Pal-of-Lim-Dul
Posts: 1148
Joined: 24-May-10

I don't get it....
Date Posted: Tue Oct/11/11 at 12:14am

Gregorius
Posts: 412
Joined: 01-Aug-10

I think the point is to make Cinder Wall an attacker by taking away its defender ability.

In the past, Walls and defender were mutually exclusive; today, any creature can have defender, so removing it via changing the Wall's creature type won't do a thing. You'd have been better off using the Animate Wall enchantment or the Warmonger's Chariot.
Date Posted: Tue Oct/11/11 at 1:26am

Draco_lich
Posts: 1073
Joined: 07-May-10

i agree with part of what you said... creatures with defender cant attack, but walls dont necessarily have defender, they simply can not attack unless they specifically say they can, unless of course they lose the creature type wall
Date Posted: Tue Oct/11/11 at 2:33am

Gregorius
Posts: 412
Joined: 01-Aug-10

Actually, Draco, that's false.

• There are no creatures with the Wall subtype that don't have defender, namely because a majority of them have no power score.
• There are, of course, exceptions—Dark Maze is the most clear and notable example saying at the cost of being exiled at the end of your turn, it "can attack as though it were not a Wall", implying that pre-8th Edition, Walls and the inability to attack went hand in hand.
• After 8th Edition, the keyword ability "defender" was implemented. To keep up the pre-8th trend, all Walls past and present were errata'd to have defender to imply that the ability extended to creatures that weren't Walls. As well, with the coming of the "changeling" ability in 10th Edition, this meant that creatures could be Walls and still be able to attack.

So today, taking away a creature's subtype does nothing special unless an ability specifically targets that subtype.

In other words, if you give a Wall creature the Warrior subtype instead, it'll still have defender; but unless you specifically have a card out that says that this creature (Warmonger's Chariot) or creatures with the Wall subtype (Rolling Stones) "can attack as though they didn't have defender", then Walls can't attack under any pretense.
Date Posted: Tue Oct/11/11 at 5:21am

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

All of the walls were errataed to have defender.
Date Posted: Tue Oct/11/11 at 1:01pm

darthmikhail
Posts: 28
Joined: 06-Oct-11

whoops. i suppose thats right too, thats a fail for poor amans magic 101...