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Turnly Board Wipe

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Momentary BlinkEnlarge

Momentary Blink

{1}{W}

Instant

Time Spiral

Read rules for Momentary Blink
Exile target creature you control, then return it to the battlefield under its owner's control. Flashback {3}{U} (You may cast this card from your graveyard for its flashback cost. Then exile it.)

Full card details & printings ›

Isochron ScepterEnlarge

Isochron Scepter

{2}

Artifact

Mirrodin

Read rules for Isochron Scepter
Imprint — When this artifact enters, you may exile an instant card with mana value 2 or less from your hand. {2}, {T}: You may copy the exiled card. If you do, you may cast the copy without paying its mana cost.

Full card details & printings ›

Date Posted: Thu Aug/04/11 at 8:53 am

Twogunkid
Posts: 2610
Joined: 22-Jan-10

I've returned to my favorite common of all time
Date Posted: Thu Aug/04/11 at 9:41am

TheCaptain
Posts: 909
Joined: 13-Apr-11

Wouldn't you need to blink the Goblin Pyromancer each turn? When he comes into play at the end of your turn, I imagine his ability triggers again, so when the next turn end comes (your opponent's), your scepters will still be tapped from when you used them on your turn. I could be missing something though.
Date Posted: Thu Aug/04/11 at 9:57am

rav514
Posts: 329
Joined: 02-Dec-10

Blink doesn't save the pyromancer. If you play blink in response to pyromancers ability; its resolves first. All parts resolve first!! So you remove the creature AND put it back into play. Blink doesn't create a trigger, it just says remove and return. So you remove the target and return it before the destroy effect is resolved. One of the phase out instants would work though.
Date Posted: Thu Aug/04/11 at 11:54am

darthnefas
Posts: 1081
Joined: 04-Apr-11

I think he thought it blinked until end of turn and it removes and returns instantly.

If someone targets it with a spell and it disappears does the target undo for its return?

So lets say you Shock it and in response you blink it out and back in, is the Shock still locked on?
Date Posted: Thu Aug/04/11 at 12:25pm

rav514
Posts: 329
Joined: 02-Dec-10

Good Question,
Make heart say no but my head says yes.
In order for a card to resolve properly it checks the target when the spell is put on the stack AND when it resolves. The target is there when the spell is put on the stack AND blink returns the creature before the spell would resolve so it should pass that check also, allowing shock to resolve properly.
I think blink is only good for "washing" a creature of enchantments or equipment but i may be wrong on that.

Can someone pm gercault for a better explanation?

[Edited by rav514 on 4/Aug/11 at 12:26PM]
Date Posted: Thu Aug/04/11 at 12:53pm

TheCaptain
Posts: 909
Joined: 13-Apr-11

well blinkings great for "when this creature leaves play" or "enters the battlefield" effects. Also, blinking cards that talk about "owner's control" can be great when combined with cards like Confusion in the Ranks. But yeah, I don't think a blink is what you want here, maybe use a flickerform instead? Or a panoptic mirror with ghostway if you want to save all of your creatures, but flickerform is what i would go with personally.
Date Posted: Thu Aug/04/11 at 1:13pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

I'm not sure about what the above conversations are about, but wouldn't the Pyromancer die at the turn.
Date Posted: Thu Aug/04/11 at 1:24pm

lin sivvi
Posts: 1608
Joined: 14-Jan-10

If a spell is targeting, but not resolved than momentery blink will counter the spell.
Date Posted: Thu Aug/04/11 at 2:01pm

darthnefas
Posts: 1081
Joined: 04-Apr-11

Counter!  That seems a little extreme, doesn't it?
Date Posted: Thu Aug/04/11 at 2:45pm

rav514
Posts: 329
Joined: 02-Dec-10

@ turbine - Yes the pyromancer is killed also. Thats how we got into the working of BLINK.

@ Lin - I want to agree because i think it should work that way but i can't find anything to support that position.

Here's the rule on resolving spells:

608.2b If the spell or ability specifies targets, it checks whether the targets are still legal. A target that’s no longer in the zone it was in when it was targeted is illegal. Other changes to the game state may cause a target to no longer be legal; for example, its characteristics may have changed or an effect may have changed the text of the spell. If the source of an ability has left the zone it was in, its last known information is used during this process. The spell or ability is countered if all its targets, for every instance of the word “target,” are now illegal. If the spell or ability is not countered, it will resolve normally. However, if any of its targets are illegal, the part of the spell or ability’s effect for which it is an illegal target can’t perform any actions on that target or make that target perform any actions. The effect may still determine information about illegal targets, though, and other parts of the effect for which those targets are not illegal may still affect them.


Note the second line: "A target that’s no longer in the zone it was in when it was targeted is illegal". While it is true that the card left the zone the SAME card also returned to the SAME ZONE prior to the targeting spell actually checking where it was.

So when the target was checked to be legal during casting; it was.

When the target was checked during resolution; it was in the same zone and the same card; it's legal.

I can't find anything that cares what happens to a card between those two points.

Like i said, i think you should be right but can't really find anything. If you can, would you pls post the rule.
Thanks

[Edited by rav514 on 4/Aug/11 at 2:48PM]
Date Posted: Fri Aug/05/11 at 12:32am

Pal-of-Lim-Dul
Posts: 1148
Joined: 24-May-10

I guess we could go with Mimic Vat for the Goblin? That could also cut the combo down to 4 cards...
Date Posted: Fri Aug/05/11 at 12:36am

TheCaptain
Posts: 909
Joined: 13-Apr-11

Mimic vat is perfect. it doesn't matter that its exiled at the end of turn since it would be destroyed either way.
Date Posted: Fri Aug/05/11 at 12:58am

lin sivvi
Posts: 1608
Joined: 14-Jan-10

umm the mometery blink thing creates a new, exactly the same creature, thus the spell is no longer targeting the new creature.
Date Posted: Fri Aug/05/11 at 7:38am

darthnefas
Posts: 1081
Joined: 04-Apr-11

This line hurt my head: However, if any of its targets are illegal, the part of the spell or ability’s effect for which it is an illegal target can’t perform any actions on that target or make that target perform any actions.

I hate the word counter in that rule description.  I always liked the old fizzle, but I never liked that either.  It came up when people used Cantrips, which did something and then you drew a card during the next upkeep.   So for instance if it said deal a point of damage and draw a card.  If the creature disappeared then the card didn't resolve because the target wasn't there and you didn't draw a card.  I hated that because the card shouldn't be castable if it didn't have the target!  So the card should attempt to deal a point of damage, the target is no longer there so a lightning bolt streams across and hits empty ground and then you get to draw a card. 

Secondly, on the blink rule.  Lets think of it from the bounce/Aluren combo idea.  Is a creature that is removed from play still the same creature when it comes back?  That's the real question and to apply that we have to have it consistent in all instances and it isn't if the creature is still targetable.  For instance, what if it said it went back to your hand and you instantly recast it?  Well, yes, it would be the same card, but the world of in play doesn't know that and could be a totally different creature.  When I'm driving around in an F16 and I lock on a sidewinder missile, if the target blinked out, I'd need to reacquire it.  For all intent here, if you cast a Shock then the missile has already left the wing and if the target disappeared and then reappeared chances are the missile is going to miss.  I think the stack needs to have the target in it all the time and if the target goes away then it's no longer there and the spell simply fizzles (not counters).  All this checking at the beginning and end is junk. 

I understand these aren't the rules, but it's the way they should be.
Date Posted: Fri Aug/05/11 at 9:13am

rav514
Posts: 329
Joined: 02-Dec-10

First, i agree that's how it SHOULD work. What i can't find is a rule to support that.

@ Liv. Blink does not say that. The rules same when you CAST/play a duplicate card it is treated as separtate card. Merolk #1 merfolk #2 etc.
However BLINK says target creature leaves play and return "IT". Not return a copy of it. "IT" refers to the "target creature" so the whole this could be written WITH SAME MEANING to say this: "Exile target creature and return that target creature". Would you say it's not the same creature under that statement? Both the actual card wording and that wording mean the same thing.

What i can't find is a rule that say "when a target changes zones it becomes invalid". I thought that would be and easy find. Maybe i'm just missing it.
I did find "If the target is not in the same zone during resolution as it was when it was cast, the target is illegal."
If you bounce the target and recast it as a fast effect it is actually a different target because it was cast. This is not cast however.


@ Darth, to continue your analogy, I equate it to this. If some one fires an arrow at you and you try to jump over it; but jump to soon and land right where you started a moment b4 the arrow strikes. I.e. Bad timing.
We need a changing zones invalidates targets rule. Can some one find one?
Date Posted: Fri Aug/05/11 at 10:11am

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

Rule 400.7 is the rule your looking for

New object so not the one that was targeted
Date Posted: Fri Aug/05/11 at 10:18am

rav514
Posts: 329
Joined: 02-Dec-10

Ger to the rescue. thanks man.




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