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Unbelievable Infinite Turns

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Brand

Instant

Urza's Saga

Read rules

Gain control of all permanents you own. (This effect lasts indefinitely.) Cycling

(

, Discard this card: Draw a card.)

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Isochron Scepter

Isochron Scepter

Artifact

Mirrodin

Read rules

Imprint — When this artifact enters, you may exile an instant card with mana value 2 or less from your hand.

,

: You may copy the exiled card. If you do, you may cast the copy without paying its mana cost.

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Magosi, the Waterveil

Magosi, the Waterveil

Land

Zendikar

Read rules

This land enters tapped.

: Add

.

,

: Put an eon counter on this land. Skip your next turn.

, Remove an eon counter from this land and return it to its owner's hand: Take an extra turn after this one.

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Bazaar Trader

Bazaar Trader

Creature — Goblin

Worldwake

Read rules

: Target player gains control of target artifact, creature, or land you control.

1/1

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Date Posted: Fri Jul/29/11 at 11:40 pm

Posts: 909
Joined: 13-Apr-11

Can't believe I didn't see this til now. I had been playing a bunch of Zedruu EDH decks on cockatrice, and was really frustrated with how it manipulated the stack. Then I saw this. Finally a reason to get my long-ignored Magosi's back into a deck.

Since its "{b}, {t}: Put an eon counter on Magosi. You skip your next turn ability" isn't a mana ability, I believe (and correct me if i'm wrong) that it goes on the stack. Retaining priority, you have bazaar trader send it to an opponent. When Magosi's ability resolves, the "you" from "you skip your next turn" is your opponents. You end your turn. Your opponents turn was skipped so now its your turn again. Tap isochron scepter which is imprinted with brand to regain control of Magosi, and use its "Take Another Turn" ability. On your next turn, the process is repeated. This will only work infinite if its 1 on 1 though. For multiplayer, you'll have to regain control of Magosi after its ability resolves, untap it somehow, then use its ability that same turn.

And since its red and blue, all those Zedruu EDH decks can add this combo to their horrible little deck lists.

Date Posted: Sat Jul/30/11 at 8:53am

Posts: 329
Joined: 02-Dec-10

As i understand it, the ability on the stack becomes separate from the card that generated it when it gets put on the stack. That's why you can't kill a creature to remove an ability from the stack. So you would still control the ability (Skip your next turn) but your opponent would now control the the land with an eon counter from you. So he would get his next turn, tap it to take an extra turn, and then you'd skip ur next turn giving him 3 turns in a row.

Date Posted: Sat Jul/30/11 at 9:46am

Posts: 909
Joined: 13-Apr-11

The reason I believe it works this way is because I have played against many Zedruu decks which give your permanents away. Often it gives away permanents as abilities or triggers are on the stack. For example, Transcendence is often used. After the "when you have twenty or more life you lose the game" triggers, in response, Zedruu gives the enchantment away, and then the "you" becomes the new controller of the enchantment. I can't imagine why it doesn't work the same for Magosi. But if I'm wrong, I'd love to have to explained a little more thoroughly to me.

Never mind, I figured out what I was doing wrong. The activated ability stays under your control. You would need a way to give control of the triggered ability to another player, and I don't think thats possible.

[Edited by TheCaptain on 30/Jul/11 at 9:50AM]

Date Posted: Sat Jul/30/11 at 11:25am

Posts: 329
Joined: 02-Dec-10

Then ur doing it wrong. "you" on an ability on the stack refers to the person who controls the ability on the stack. Not the person who controls the permanent that put the ability on the stack. The ability becomes separated from the permanent when you put it on the stack. You didn't give away the ability in the stack; You gave away the permanent, not the ability.

If you have trancendence out timing becomes everything. If in response to getting to getting over 20 life you give it away your fine. If you wait till trancendence triggers you still lose.

Its like this.
stack.
botton of stack -> Healing salve you gain 3 life to go to 21.
in responce to -> bazaar trader gives away trancendence.

You live. you gave it away before you actually get above 20 life.

if it goes like this.
Static check your @ 21 life
stack
bottom of stack --> trancedence lose game trigger for having 21 life
in responce to ---> bazaar trader giving away transendence

You lose because the trigger is already on the stack and the target is still you. You put the trigger on the stack because YOU HAD TO by game rules. So even if trancendence is moved,destroyed,bounced, whatever you still loose. Once you let the ability or trigger get onto the stack you have to TARGET THE ABILITY OR TRIGGER ON THE STACK TO STOP THE EFFECT. Targeting the permanent that put it there does nothing.

Date Posted: Sat Jul/30/11 at 11:31am

Posts: 445
Joined: 01-Jun-10

[Edited by Hungry123 on 30/Jul/11 at 11:32AM]

Date Posted: Sat Jul/30/11 at 11:47am

Posts: 329
Joined: 02-Dec-10

Here's the rules since i was looking for something else and found them.

112.7. The source of an ability is the object that generated it. The source of an activated ability on thestack is the object whose ability was activated. The source of a triggered ability (other than a
delayed triggered ability) on the stack, or one that has triggered and is waiting to be put on thevstack, is the object whose ability triggered. To determine the source of a delayed triggered ability,
see rules 603.7d–f.

112.7a Once activated or triggered, an ability exists on the stack independently of its source.Destruction or removal of the source after that time won’t affect the ability. Note that some abilities cause a source to do something (for example, “Prodigal Sorcerer deals 1 damage to target creature or player”) rather than the ability doing anything directly. In these cases, any activated or triggered ability that references information about the source because the effect
needs to be divided checks that information when the ability is put onto the stack. Otherwise, it will check that information when it resolves. In both instances, if the source is no longer in the zone it’s expected to be in at that time, its last known information is used. The source can still perform the action even though it no longer exists.

112.8. The controller of an activated ability on the stack is the player who activated it. The controller of a triggered ability on the stack (other than a delayed triggered ability) is the player who controlled
the ability’s source when it triggered, or, if it had no controller, the player who owned the ability’s source when it triggered. To determine the controller of a delayed triggered ability, see rules 603.7d–f.

Date Posted: Sun Jul/31/11 at 10:40pm

Posts: 24
Joined: 07-Jun-11

reroute + another isochron

Date Posted: Sun Jul/31/11 at 10:56pm

Posts: 909
Joined: 13-Apr-11

Naw, it doesn't work, I messed up. Reroute only changes target, you'd need to change who CONTROLS the activated ability, and thats not really possible. Oh well, Magosi, looks like you win again.

Date Posted: Mon Aug/01/11 at 12:07am

Posts: 24
Joined: 07-Jun-11

"you" is a target the counter still gets placed on the land and the newly target player loses their next turn

Date Posted: Mon Aug/01/11 at 8:14am

Posts: 76
Joined: 26-Feb-11

"you" is not a target... if the ability does not say target then there is no target.

Date Posted: Mon Aug/01/11 at 3:42pm

Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

Has it been decided whether it works yet? Where's Zark?

Date Posted: Mon Aug/01/11 at 4:06pm

Posts: 1081
Joined: 04-Apr-11

I can't read all the insanity, but I'm saying it doesn't. So if it comes to a vote you guys know which side I'm on.

Date Posted: Mon Aug/01/11 at 4:27pm

Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

I'd say it does.

Date Posted: Mon Aug/01/11 at 5:25pm

Posts: 1081
Joined: 04-Apr-11

It sounds like we're trying to pass a budget here!

Where's my swing vote and some lobbyists!

Date Posted: Mon Aug/01/11 at 5:38pm

Posts: 329
Joined: 02-Dec-10

It has to say "target" to target. Reroute doesn't work. rule 114 all subsections.

Date Posted: Mon Aug/01/11 at 7:26pm

Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

As I see it, you pay a U and tap it, then the ability goes on the stack. There is a moment inbetween the cost and the ability where there is priority. This is why you can counter Harrow and the opponent still sacrifices land. During that moment, you use Bazaar Trader's ability, and it goes on the stack. First, Bazaar Trader's ability resolves and your opponent gains control of Magosi. Then, Magosi resolves and the eon counter gets placed on it. Your opponent skips their next turn. It's your turn again and you get infinite turns, without even removing the counters.

Date Posted: Mon Aug/01/11 at 7:37pm

Posts: 329
Joined: 02-Dec-10

The opponent does not skip their turn. The player that tapped Magosi skips their turn.

Date Posted: Mon Aug/01/11 at 7:42pm

Posts: 329
Joined: 02-Dec-10

When you tap magosi, you pay the cost and put the ability on the stack. From that point on; no matter what happens to magosi; the person who put it on the stack control the ability and gets all the effect of that ability. The "cost" of magosi is "put counter on magosi". The ability waiting to resolve is "skip your next turn". You have to target the ability to stop it or change it. Targeting magosi does nothing. Further more; the ability does not offically target the person who puts it there so it cannot be re directed. It could be trickbound or stifled but thats it. But you can not make some one else skip their turn with this card unless you made them activate the ability by tapping the card. So mindslaver or sorin or something like that.

Edit: Putting the counter on may not be considered a "cost". It really does not matter. The result is the same. The person who skips their next turn is the person who tapped magosi and puts the ability on the stack. The person who controls magosi as the ability resolves does not matter.

[Edited by rav514 on 1/Aug/11 at 7:53PM]

Date Posted: Mon Aug/01/11 at 8:52pm

Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

Since there still seems to be some debate I'll clear it up

I doesn't work, for the reasons and rules that rav posted. once you activate the ability you still controll the ability you are still the you in that ability. as the ruling that rav posted stated removing the source doesn't change anything. you will skip the turn

you also can't reroute the ability since it doesn;t have a target.

Date Posted: Mon Aug/01/11 at 10:01pm

Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

Well, that's sad. . .I could probably still trick my judge into believing me though. I can sound very intelligible. (^_^)

Date Posted: Tue Aug/02/11 at 9:42am

Posts: 1073
Joined: 07-May-10

could just use panoptic mirror with any card like timewalk

Date Posted: Tue Aug/02/11 at 9:53am

Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

WHERE'S THE FUN IN THAT?

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