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BOOM! Wait, You have creatures?!?

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Panoptic MirrorEnlarge

Panoptic Mirror

{5}

Artifact

Darksteel

Read rules for Panoptic Mirror
Imprint — {X}, {T}: You may exile an instant or sorcery card with mana value X from your hand. At the beginning of your upkeep, you may copy a card exiled with this artifact. If you do, you may cast the copy without paying its mana cost.

Full card details & printings ›

Date Posted: Tue Jan/26/10 at 8:40 pm

Twogunkid
Posts: 2610
Joined: 22-Jan-10

Imprint Final Judgement and Akroma\'s Blessing. During your upkeep grant your creatures protection from white and fire Final Judgement off. You can use wrath of god, but I don\'t like leaving my opponents with graveyards.
Date Posted: Tue Jan/26/10 at 9:23pm

Cianidexx
Posts: 16
Joined: 08-Dec-09

This doesn't work. Protection from color only stops damage and targets from said color. A mass removal effect such as this or wrath of god will not be stopped since the card does not target anything.

You will also lose your creatures.
Date Posted: Wed Jan/27/10 at 5:37am

Twogunkid
Posts: 2610
Joined: 22-Jan-10

No, protection means they aren't affected by spells of that color, therefore mass effects caused by that color should not effect them. I'm gonna really disagree with you here.
Date Posted: Wed Jan/27/10 at 5:58am

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

If that was true, Progenitus would go up by 50 dollars.

Protection from white means it can't be targeted by white spells.

Mass removal doesn't target it.
Date Posted: Wed Jan/27/10 at 11:59am

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

Protection on anything prevents 4 things(5 if you count the E's as seperate things) summed up by the word-DEBT

Damage, Enchant/Equip, Blocking, and Targetting -- since Final Judgement does not do any of those things it will not be stopped by protection, your creatures will be removed from game as well

To make your combo work, replace the blessing with Ghostway- you'll remove your creatures from the game first then trigger the judgement, your creatures then return to play at end of turn.  You'll amass an army this way then kill your opponenet with 1 blow.
Date Posted: Wed Jan/27/10 at 5:38pm

Cianidexx
Posts: 16
Joined: 08-Dec-09

Well then, I guess we can't all be wrong, now can we?

Still believe you are right about your combo?
Date Posted: Thu Jan/28/10 at 10:58am

psyche
Posts: 1250
Joined: 31-Aug-09

He's right about Protection.
http://www.ebbemunk.dk/magic/index.html Is a very comprehensive rule book. It isn't the most up to date as it has mana burn which was removed in 2010, but the protection has been that way since about 6th edition.


502.7

Protection
502.7a

Protection is a static ability, written "Protection from [quality]." This quality is usually a color (as in "protection from black") but can be any characteristic value. If the quality is a type, subtype, or supertype, the protection applies to sources that are permanents with that type, subtype, or supertype and to any sources not in play that are of that type, subtype, or supertype.
502.7b

A permanent with protection can't be targeted by spells with the stated quality and can't be targeted by abilities from a source with the stated quality.
502.7c

A permanent with protection can't be enchanted by Auras that have the stated quality. Such Auras attached to the permanent with protection will be put into their owners' graveyards as a state-based effect. (See rule 420, "State-Based Effects.")
502.7d

A permanent with protection can't be equipped by Equipment that have the stated quality. Such Equipment become unattached from that permanent, but remain in play. (See rule 420, "State-Based Effects.")
502.7e

Any damage that would be dealt by sources that have the stated quality to a permanent that has protection is prevented.
502.7f

If a creature with protection attacks, it can't be blocked by creatures that have the stated quality.
502.7g

Multiple instances of protection from the same quality on the same permanent are redundant.



Ghostaway still works.
Date Posted: Thu Jan/28/10 at 2:12pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

Would Ghostway work since both the spells trigger at the same time?

Also, even if it did, it would only serve to block creatures with haste.


[Edited by Turbine on 28/Jan/10 at 2:13PM]
Date Posted: Thu Jan/28/10 at 9:00pm

Twogunkid
Posts: 2610
Joined: 22-Jan-10

I was Right! Yeah! Progenitus is so making its way into my big creature deck now!
Date Posted: Thu Jan/28/10 at 9:47pm

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

Twogun-how does anything Psyche wrote suggest you are right.  Again protection only prevents DEBT.  Non-damaging mass removal will still work againest a creature with protection.  again this does not work

Turbine-abilitys might trigger at the same time however they do not resolve at the same time.  When an ability triggers it is placed on the stack and each item resolves individually.  So what happens in this case is at the beginning of your upkeep both panaoptic triggers occur, since you control both triggers you can stack them as you want.  so put the judgement trigger on the stack first followed by the ghostway.  The ghostway will then resolve first remove your creatures then the judgement reomoves your oppenets.

As for the benefit-yes you can block hasters, however, you also build andarmy.  say you have 1 creature when it is removed, you play a creature, your next upkeep both get removed, you play another, next upkeep, 3 get removed, etc...  Since panaoptic is a may trigger you do not need to remove your creatures so if they have no blockers you can just not remove yours and attack

 


[Edited by gericault5 on 28/Jan/10 at 9:48PM]
Date Posted: Fri Jan/29/10 at 12:10pm

lin sivvi
Posts: 1608
Joined: 14-Jan-10

Epic moment in my magic the gathering life,  my oppenent played a Progenitus, and was going to kill me next turn, even though i had 30+ goblins, I throw down an obliterate to kill Progenitus ( he had nothing (other than lands) out) also he had a counter-spell in his hand


moral of the story, nothing is invicible



so yeah everyone else is right Twogun, that would sorta work with a swirling sandstorm, or of the like
Date Posted: Fri Jan/29/10 at 6:31pm

Twogunkid
Posts: 2610
Joined: 22-Jan-10

My FNM buddies disagree with you
Date Posted: Fri Jan/29/10 at 7:53pm

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

Look if you want to believe you and your buddies are right, go right ahead thats your choice, doesn't mean it is right, which in this case its not, but its your right.  However i don't know what sort of place you play fnm in, but in most places the comprensive rules, such as those posted above,  out weigh the buddy system. and if someone who does know the rules calls you on this combo a judge will call it an illegal action.
Date Posted: Fri Jan/29/10 at 9:56pm

Twogunkid
Posts: 2610
Joined: 22-Jan-10

According to the interpretation I was tought. The only way to get at those creatures was to force them to be sacraficed, like with grave pact or barter in blood. And that any source of the selected color does nothing  unless it forces a player to kill them like sacraficing the creature
Date Posted: Sat Jan/30/10 at 12:26am

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

Sorry, but you were taught wrong.  While force sacing a creature with protection works so does mass removal,  if you look at the rules Psyche posted it shows you what a permanent with protection can't be affected by.  These are specific things, there is no where in the rules does it say a pro-whatever creature can;t be affected by the whatever.  Lets look at the specifics and how they apply to you and other examples.

A protected permanant can't be targeted-judgement, Wog, infest- do not target-PTe does though so that would not work-also mercy killing cause you to sac a creature however it targets so it will not work on your pro white creatures since it is white

A protected permanant can't be enchanted/equiped-judgement does not equip or enchant you also can't equip behemoth sledge or enchant pariah to your pro white creatures

A protected permanant can't be dealt damage-judgement, wog, infest do not cause damage, however a pro red creature will not be hurt by fallout or pyroclasm since they do damage

A protected permanant can't be blocked-since your not attacking this doesn't play, but if you were no white creature can block you, including hybrids

looking at the specifics you can see there is no way pro white can help againest judgement.  Also sorry if i'm being to critical and long winded i just want you and others to be aware of the rules especially since you and some of the people reading this play in sanctioned matchs it is good knowledge to have and it more beneficial then a simple "doesn't work, move along".  I view it in terms of if we ever play i would call you on it and rather spend the time explaining it to you now then when the clock is ticking 
Date Posted: Sat Jan/30/10 at 7:13am

Twogunkid
Posts: 2610
Joined: 22-Jan-10

Well, I guess I am wrong, though protection from mass damage but not destruction sortof seems like a double standard/ By the way gericault what kind of deck are you using if we were to ever clash
Date Posted: Sat Jan/30/10 at 8:46pm

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

If we were to clash, since you play fnm i would play on of my standard decks, either uw control or rb discard/burn
Date Posted: Sun Jan/31/10 at 11:32am

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

Obliterate can't be countered. . .




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