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Is this correct?

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Date Posted: Sun Feb/27/11 at 3:56 pm

Seregthol
Posts: 115
Joined: 21-Feb-11

Does anyone know the exact ruling?  I\'ve read the rules for Trample and Deathtouch several times in a row, and I\'m fairly certain that under the new M11 wording of deathtouch, if a 6/6 deathtouch trample was blocked by a 7/7, it would kill the 7/7 and deal 5 damage to the defending player or Planeswalker. 
Date Posted: Sun Feb/27/11 at 4:46pm

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

you are correct.  if a creature has trample, when assigning damage, you need to assign lethal damage to a blocking creature and the rest can be assigned to the player.  with deathtouch 1 damage is lethal so the other 5 points can be assigned to the player

[Edited by gericault5 on 27/Feb/11 at 4:48PM]
Date Posted: Sun Feb/27/11 at 10:59pm

Pal-of-Lim-Dul
Posts: 1148
Joined: 24-May-10

but your 6/6 still dies... unless he has first strike...
Date Posted: Mon Feb/28/11 at 11:36am

Draco_lich
Posts: 1073
Joined: 07-May-10

I see how you would come to the conclusion about the titan being able to kill the 7/7 and carry on to do more (with trample),

However i see a flaw in it

Unless the gravetitan had double strike, it will not happen, because combat damage is all dealt at the same time, with the exception to first strike, and it clearly states with trample that all damage must be assigned to creatures to max hit points of the defending creatures, so no damage would carry through unless you had double strike (first strike would allow the titan to live (with the death touch) with double strike (if the titan had it), what would happen is the titan would deal its full damage to the creatures blocking (divisable as per combat rules), then, unless the creature survives (it won't unless it has indestruct ability, then the titan would then do its normal damage to the player too
Date Posted: Mon Feb/28/11 at 12:38pm

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

Draco you are correct in your assumption if deathtouch was not involvedhowever in this it is.
The rules of trample do not state you need to asign max damage they state you need to assign lethal damage. Under the rules of deathtouch 1 damage is considered to be lethal. So when you combine these together when the titan is blocked you can assign up to 6 damage to the creature. However 1 damage is lethal so you only need to assign 1 leaving the remaining 5 going to the player. Combat damage then resolves as one occurence doing the 1 damage and kill the creature while at the same time doing 5 to the player.
Basically to summarize the key word is lethal. Not max
Date Posted: Mon Feb/28/11 at 7:17pm

Seregthol
Posts: 115
Joined: 21-Feb-11

That was my thinking.  Thank you for your confirmation.
Date Posted: Sat Jul/23/11 at 7:13pm

Dakkon Thued
Posts: 312
Joined: 15-Mar-10

I know this post is a couple months old, but gericault, maybe you can answer this.  with the new wording, what if a creature has prevent all damage like cho-manno rev. or dawn elemental and/or has protection from f the attacking creature? so it's not dealing lethal damage, but still deals more than the blocking creature's defense. do u understand what i'm asking?
Date Posted: Sat Jul/23/11 at 8:32pm

darthnefas
Posts: 1081
Joined: 04-Apr-11

I always thought of damage like water.  It continued to deal out until it killed what it was hitting.

In the case of Cho-Mann the damage would continue to deal and get prevented until it was all gone.  Same case as with a creature from protection of a color.  Protection from a color says all damage dealt to creature is reduced to 0 and Trample says all is dealt until the creature is killed, so it keeps trying to fill up the bucket and the bucket has a hole and it all turns to 0. 

It would absorb it basically, but I'm so rusty on the rules I just don't know anymore, lol. 


[Edited by darthnefas on 23/Jul/11 at 8:33PM]
Date Posted: Sat Jul/23/11 at 8:58pm

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

@Dakkon-when assigning damage, for cho-manno or anything, lethal damage is considered whatever would kill it which would be 1 damage with deathtouch or the creatures toughness, the fact that the damage is negated is illrelvent since that does not happen until after it assigned.

so a 6/6 trample, would assign 2 damage to cho-manno, and 4 damage to the player.  after being assigned the damage occurs cho mannos is prevented and play takes 4.  It works the same for protection
Date Posted: Sat Jul/23/11 at 9:10pm

Dakkon Thued
Posts: 312
Joined: 15-Mar-10

Oh Ok. radical.  that's what I thought, but i've had arguments about this with people before.  and even after reading the rules, it wasn't clear.  so thanks for the help.
Date Posted: Sun Jul/24/11 at 1:45am

Draco_lich
Posts: 1073
Joined: 07-May-10

@ gericault sorry for the late reply (this post got lost to me long ago)

thanks for the correction... you are correct on the fact that 1 damage is lethal with death touch (given that it actually gets to deal its damage) and that the rest will carry through




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