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Combo Name: Does This Work? Submitted By: ForgerOfPie
Card Name
Type
Cost
P/T
Editions (ordered by release)

Djinn Illuminatus
 Creature - Djinn 5(UR)(UR) 142 Guildpact, Rare

Ancestral Vision
 Sorcery Time Spiral, Rare

Hypergenesis
 Sorcery Time Spiral, Rare

Living End
 Sorcery Time Spiral, Rare

Lotus Bloom
 Artifact Time Spiral, Rare

Restore Balance
 Sorcery Time Spiral, Rare

Wheel of Fate
 Sorcery Time Spiral, Rare
Estimated Combo Cost: $18.56
Date Posted: Wed Feb/23/11 at 9:58 pm

ForgerOfPie
Posts: 377
Joined: 06-Feb-11

Could you copy these spells infinitely?

Since they have suspend, you would pay the cost infinitely, wait out their suspended time, then have a (censored)load of whatever effect you want?
Date Posted: Wed Feb/23/11 at 9:59pm

ForgerOfPie
Posts: 377
Joined: 06-Feb-11

Or could you get infinite suspended lotus blooms?
Date Posted: Wed Feb/23/11 at 10:24pm

5papers
Posts: 60
Joined: 16-Jan-10

i think you would have to wait the sespend time each time
Date Posted: Wed Feb/23/11 at 10:24pm

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

you can't replicate any of these spells because they have no mana cost so they can't be replicated

lotus bloom is an artifact so can't be replicated even if it had a cost
Date Posted: Wed Feb/23/11 at 10:31pm

ForgerOfPie
Posts: 377
Joined: 06-Feb-11

But the rules say if a spell has no mana cost listed, it has a mana cost of 0. therefore, you should be able to replicate infinitely.
Date Posted: Wed Feb/23/11 at 11:05pm

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

Ahh, you are talking about Converted Mana Costs...

Source: wiki.mtgsalvation.com

The converted mana cost (commonly abbreviated CMC or CC) of an object is an integer equal to or greater than zero. It is determined by converting each colored mana symbol in the spell's cost to 1, then adding the results to the colorless mana cost of the spell. (For example, spells with mana costs of 1GG and 2G both have a converted mana cost of 3.)

Mana cost, formerly known as casting cost, is the mana payment required to play a spell. It is found in the upper-right corner of a Magic card and is a characteristic of that card.

Unlike converted mana cost, mana cost includes the colored mana symbols.
-------------------
So as you can see from the explanation of the differences between CMC and Mana costs, and checking the text of Djinn Illuminatus...

We see that:
"Each instant and sorcery spell you play has replicate. The replicate cost is equal to its mana cost. (When you play it, copy it for each time you paid its replicate cost. You may choose new targets for the copies.)"

and the card ruling for 0 CMC suspend cards like Lotus bloom:
10/15/2006 This has no mana cost, which means it can't normally be cast as a spell. You could, however, cast it via some alternate means, like with Fist of Suns or Mind’s Desire.
10/15/2006 This has no mana cost, which means it can't be cast with the Replicate ability of Djinn Illuminatus or by somehow giving it Flashback.

- This is because it doesn't have a mana cost meaning it doesn't have a replicate costs too...

If a card has no mana cost then you can't cast it as a spell from hand... same as replicate, if it doesn't have a replicate cost then you can't replicate it...
Date Posted: Wed Feb/23/11 at 11:20pm

MorbidAnimosity
Posts: 557
Joined: 18-Apr-10

Wouldnt you be able to GIVE IT a mana cost by playing some card that increases the mana cost of spells by, For example.. 1.
?
Date Posted: Wed Feb/23/11 at 11:30pm

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

no, a cards converted mana cost can not change.  However you can change how much of that cost is paid through reducers and increasers.
Date Posted: Thu Feb/24/11 at 12:53am

lin sivvi
Posts: 1608
Joined: 14-Jan-10

and the djinn deals with mana cost (not cmc), but I don't believe that matters does it, because it still looks at the origanal cost.
Date Posted: Thu Feb/24/11 at 3:20am

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

For more understanding of the concept, i'll sight an example...

A card has no mana cost if it's like:


but a card with 0 mana cost but still has mana cost like:


We can now see the difference between cards that can be casted from hand and cast that can't be casted from hand...

And we look at the rule text of Replicate:
Replicate (When you cast this spell, copy it for each time you paid its replicate cost. You may choose new targets for the copies.)

As we all know the keyword cast means...

[Edited by shakii23 on 24/Feb/11 at 3:23AM]
Date Posted: Thu Feb/24/11 at 12:49pm

ForgerOfPie
Posts: 377
Joined: 06-Feb-11

But like Morbid Animosity said, couldn't you use an Jaded Leech to increase the mana cost?
Date Posted: Thu Feb/24/11 at 2:40pm

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

The mana cost is located in a cards top right corner. This is a fixed amountthat does not change no matter what's in play. Cards like jade leech modify the payment of the cost but not the cost itself. Think of it like sales tax. The price of the item is one price but you end up paying more due to the tax added on. With out the leech your in a tax free state and with the emerald medellion its a 10% off sale. But in all three of these situations the cost of the item is the same. Only the paying price changes
So with the djinn and leech both in play. If you cast a giant growth you will need to pay GG to cast it but its replicate cost is G, since that is the amount printed in the corner
Date Posted: Thu Feb/24/11 at 4:59pm

MorbidAnimosity
Posts: 557
Joined: 18-Apr-10

Wouldnt izzet guildmage be able to replicate?
it says "converted mana cost 2 or less" in his abilities..
and no converted mana cost is less than 2...
Date Posted: Thu Feb/24/11 at 7:07pm

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

i think you can copy it with izzet guildmage but you have to pay 2U for each copy or maybe U with training grounds... after it goes on the stock, after the last time counter is removed...
Date Posted: Fri Feb/25/11 at 12:31am

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

shakii is correct (other then color since their sorceries), your not actually replicating these spells you are copying them, which does not rely on mana cost, other then having a converted mana cost is 0
Date Posted: Fri Feb/25/11 at 1:28am

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

oh yeah... got confused with the color... it should be Red... LOL
Date Posted: Sat Feb/26/11 at 6:01am

Legend_Mageta
Posts: 76
Joined: 26-Feb-11

with the exception of Lotus Bloom, this actually works... this runs on the same concept of cascade as it has a cost of 0 and if coming in from suspend... the wording for suspend states that the suspended card is played WITHOUT PAYING ITS MANA COST therefore the game still counts it as a spell and can still be countered.
Date Posted: Sat Feb/26/11 at 9:14am

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

If you are refering to the op no it doesn't if your refering to coping it with the guldmage then yes it does work
Date Posted: Sat Feb/26/11 at 6:42pm

ForgerOfPie
Posts: 377
Joined: 06-Feb-11

Question:

OP = Original Post?



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