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Proper use of a mimic vat

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Isochron ScepterEnlarge

Isochron Scepter

{2}

Artifact

Mirrodin

Read rules for Isochron Scepter
Imprint — When this artifact enters, you may exile an instant card with mana value 2 or less from your hand. {2}, {T}: You may copy the exiled card. If you do, you may cast the copy without paying its mana cost.

Full card details & printings ›

Date Posted: Tue Dec/28/10 at 4:36 pm

psyche
Posts: 1250
Joined: 31-Aug-09

This one needs mimic vat.


Now killing one makes many. Just what to multiply...
Date Posted: Tue Dec/28/10 at 5:31pm

sir003
Posts: 60
Joined: 19-Feb-10

I dont quite understand. How does this combo do its combo thing?
Date Posted: Tue Dec/28/10 at 5:58pm

psyche
Posts: 1250
Joined: 31-Aug-09

When the end of turn comes around and the creature's sacrifice effect triggers you stifle it. Because of that the creature doesn't go away.
Date Posted: Wed Dec/29/10 at 6:28am

Ephemerance
Posts: 913
Joined: 18-Jun-09

I'm not sure this would work, it is a trigger that goes on the stack, or a state based effect added as a result of the mimic vat?
Date Posted: Wed Dec/29/10 at 12:15pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

This doesn't work as you would have to counter the entire ability (aka, everything after the colon)
Date Posted: Wed Dec/29/10 at 3:20pm

Eldraziking187
Posts: 670
Joined: 12-Apr-10

no, it works. secondary trigger at end of combat. once it's on the stack - stifle. you could use another artifact that has imp....oh wait...ich scepter. thats what thats for! good job. this is an A+ combo that works with any creature.
Date Posted: Wed Dec/29/10 at 3:21pm

Eldraziking187
Posts: 670
Joined: 12-Apr-10

sorry, not end of combat, end of turn.

I'm saying this does work.
Date Posted: Wed Dec/29/10 at 10:42pm

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

To piggy back on Eldrazi--yes this does work.  When the copy is made the vat gives it whats known as a delayed trigger ability (which is an ability that will trigger at a later time created by the resolute of another spell or ability).  So basically what happens is the copy comes into play with all the characteristics of the imprinted card plus the additional text of "haste" and "At the beginning of the next end of turn step, Sacrifice creature's name here".  So in this combo what happens is the end of turn comes around and the delayed trigger activates, however since it is essentially a normal trigger ability (only created by another ability) it gets stifled and the creature's name here does not get sacced.

Now, here is where it gets confusing, normally a trigger ability will occur whenever the trigger is true.  for example Spark elemental has the trigger ability At the beginning of the end step, sacrifice Spark Elemental.  So if you play it, and then stifle the end of turn trigger it will not get sacced, however, next time the end step begins (which will be your opponents) the trigger goes off again and the spark will get saced.

however, a delayed trigger will only occur one time and that is when the trigger occurs next.  Reason being is that when a creature is brought into play via the vat there is only 1 Next end of turn.  you stifle that one and it sticks around, there are additional end of turns but none are the next one. (Text is key)

Does that clear things up on why this works?

Also if this got people wondering the answer is Yes, the unearth ability creates a delayed trigger that works the same way, if you unearth a creature and then stifle the exile trigger it will stick around, however, when it does get destroyed it will be removed from the game.  Only exception is hellspark and hells thunder due to its any end step trigger (see spark above)
Date Posted: Wed Dec/29/10 at 11:00pm

Ephemerance
Posts: 913
Joined: 18-Jun-09

Is there any example of a card that generates a delayed state based effect rather than a trigger?
Date Posted: Wed Dec/29/10 at 11:12pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

"When the end of turn comes around and the creature's sacrifice effect triggers you stifle it. Because of that the creature doesn't go away." Didn't you get mad at me earlier for explaining a rule in greater detail, Gericault?

Don't take this offensively.
Date Posted: Thu Dec/30/10 at 1:33am

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

Turbine-no offesive taken, to be frank I don't know what your talking about.  I find it hard to believe that i got mad at you for broading peoples knowledge and perspective.

Ephemerance-State based actions are checked constantly thorughout the game and not controled by anybody.  As far as I know there is no card that can generate a state-based effect to occur
Date Posted: Thu Dec/30/10 at 8:23am

Eldraziking187
Posts: 670
Joined: 12-Apr-10

We already had this discussion before about Sneak Attack and Stifle. The delayed trigger could be countered by Stifle allowing the cheaply played creature to stick. I did not know until the smarties woke up. Remember?:

http://www.mtgcombos.com/view.php?fid=2&tid=25458