And You Thought Ally Math Was Bad Before!

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Combo Name: And You Thought Ally Math Was Bad Before!

Submitted By: Gregorius

Card Name

Type

Cost

P/T

Editions (ordered by release)

Ink-Treader Nephilim

Creature - Nephilim

WURG

3/3

Ondu Cleric

Creature - Kor Cleric Ally

(1/1)

Oran-Rief Survivalist

Creature - Human Warrior Ally

(1/1)

Rite of Replication

Sorcery

2UU

Akoum Battlesinger

Creature - Human Berserker Ally

1/1

Halimar Excavator

Creature - Human Wizard Ally

1/3

Estimated Combo Cost: $2.58

Date Posted: Tue Sep/07/10 at 12:00 am

Gregorius

Posts: 411
Joined: 01-Aug-10

Kick the Rite of Replication and target Ink-Trader Nephilim. Then watch the magic happen.
How many Allies? ...cards milled? ...life gained? ...+1/+1 counters added? ...bonuses of +1/+0?

Do the math. I dare you.

Date Posted: Tue Sep/07/10 at 12:32am

shakii23

Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

From the rite of replication alone,
For life gained:
ondu clerics
Oran-rief Survivalist
Akoum Battlesinger
Halimar Excavator

So here it is:
the 5 replicated ondu clerics detects each other coming into play giving:
5*5=25 life
plus the original detecting 5 other ondu cleric = 25+5 = 30
plus the 6 detecting 5 Oran-rief Survivalist = 30+6 = 36
plus the 6 detecting 5 Akoum Battlesinger = 36+6 = 42
plus the 6 detecting 5 Halimar Excavator = 42+6 = 48 life gain triggers * the number of allies (that's 6 ondu, 6 oran, 6 akoum and 6 halimar = 24) = 48*24= do the math...

For +1/+1 counters, +1/+0:
same calculation without the *24 = 48
that means 48 +1/+1 counter on each Oran-rief Survivalist
plus +48/+0 on each ally...

For MILL, i think it's the same as life gain... still do the math...

[Edited by shakii23 on 7/Sep/10 at 12:42AM]

Date Posted: Tue Sep/07/10 at 12:44am

shakii23

Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

Then you copy rite of replication with a Level 4 Echo mage... How many tokens, life gain, +1/+1 counter, +1/+0 on all allies and mill will you get now?

Date Posted: Tue Sep/07/10 at 12:45am

shakii23

Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

and also forgot, it's called overkill...

Date Posted: Tue Sep/07/10 at 12:47am

shakii23

Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

Now even emrakul can't save your opponent now...

Date Posted: Tue Sep/07/10 at 12:49am

shakii23

Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

Another note... If you're going to devour all that tokens... you're stupid...

Date Posted: Tue Sep/07/10 at 2:32am

Gregorius

Posts: 411
Joined: 01-Aug-10

Okay, shakii, dude? No disrespect, but you need to learn to edit your posts. No one wants to see thirty posts from you just saying something slightly different each time.

I've been trying to work it out in my head, though... I'll try and make an example with Ondu Cleric. When you assume the Allies are already out before Rite of Replication is played:
► The original Ondu Cleric sees all twenty tokens enter.

TOTAL TRIGGERS: 20

► Each of the Ondu Cleric tokens sees itself enter.

TOTAL TRIGGERS: 25

► Each of the Ondu Cleric tokens sees the other nineteen tokens enter; nineteen times five is another ninety-five tokens made.

TOTAL TRIGGERS: 120

Ondu Cleric:
120 triggers x 24 Allies in play
= 2880 life gained
Akoum Battlesinger:
120 triggers
= +120/+0 for all Allies
Halimar Excavator:
120 triggers x 24 Allies in play
= 2880 cards milled
= the equivalent of 48 Standard decks
Oran-Rief Survivalist:
120 triggers
= 120 +1/+1 counters

I think my math is right... could be wrong. I'm prone to making a crapload of mistakes at night.

[Edited by Gregorius on 7/Sep/10 at 2:41AM]

Date Posted: Tue Sep/07/10 at 2:52am

shakii23

Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

I think you're right?

but my head hurts again... so i can't prove it...

So i'll just agree with you...

Also level 4 Echo Mage copies Rite of Replication twice...
so do the math again... Hahaha...

My head hurts just by thinking about it...
[Edited by shakii23 on 7/Sep/10 at 2:58AM]

But i'll calculate it anyway... hope this is right...

Based on my calculation on the first rite of replication,
Total Life gained and milled = 1152
Total +1/+1 counters and +1/+0 = 48

Now your calculation on the first copied rite of replication was wrong... You see, there are 36 ondu clerics including the original...

1 (original) + 5 copies from the original(first rite of replication) + 5 copies from the original (second rite of replication) + 25 copies from each of the Ondu cleric from the first rite of replication (second rite of replication) =
36 Ondu Clerics

So...
30 ondu clerics entering the battlefield seeing each other...
30 * 30 =
900
plus the original 6 ondu clerics detecting 30 ondu clerics entering the battlefield =
30*6 = 180
add it up =
900+180 = 1080 life gain triggers * the number of allies (36) = 38880 life gained...

Good luck on your opponent trying to kill you with damage...

Same goes for mill...
as for +1/+1 counters and +1/+0, thats easy...

1080 each...

Now the tricky part is the total on all of them allies coming into play all at once...

[Edited by shakii23 on 7/Sep/10 at 3:16AM]
See the time difference between the edits... that's how much time it took me to edit the post for the calculations and the text formatting with colors... Though it's wrong, i put a lot of effort on it...

[Edited by shakii23 on 7/Sep/10 at 3:42AM]

[Edited by shakii23 on 7/Sep/10 at 3:45AM]

[Edited by shakii23 on 7/Sep/10 at 3:57AM]

Date Posted: Tue Sep/07/10 at 3:32am

shakii23

Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

I'll calculate it right now... since i love the challenge...

We all know that Ondu cleric alone generates 1080 life gain triggers
Halimar Excavator generates the same amount of mill triggers
Survivalist gets 1080 +1/+1 counters each
and Akoum gives the same amount of +1/+0 to all allies...

First, the total allies:
let's go back to the casting of the second kicked Rite of Replication,
it gives 30 ondu clerics + 30 Survivalist + 30 halimar + 30 akoum = 120 allies
plus the 5 copies from the original and the originals...
And we have 36 allies for each creature...
36 ondu clerics + 36 Survivalist + 36 halimar + 36 akoum = 144 allies all in all...

Now, the life gain:
30 ondu clerics detecting each other coming into play:
That's 30*30 = 900
plus the same 30 ondu clerics detecting 30 survivalist coming into play
that's another 900
plus the halimars, another 900
plus the akoum, another 900
plus the original 6 detecting 120 (30 ondu, 30 halimar, 30 survivalist, 30 Akoum)...
That's a total of 900+900+900+900+120 = 3720 life gain triggers * the number of allies (144) = that's a whooping 535,680 life gained...

Same goes to mill...

For the +1/+1 counters and +1/+0 (this is much easier):
Same calculations for +1/+1 counters and +1/+0, except without the *144
So we arrive to 3720 +1/+1 counters and +1/+0...

Is that enough?

Next question is,what is the total life gained, total card milled, total power of all allies on your side of the field, assuming you started with those 4 allies and the Nephilim?

[Edited by shakii23 on 7/Sep/10 at 3:33AM]

Date Posted: Tue Sep/07/10 at 3:45am

Gregorius

Posts: 411
Joined: 01-Aug-10

I'm... not understanding where the hell you're getting your figures from.

Based on your calculation on your first rite of replication,

Total Life gained and milled = 1152

Total +1/+1 counters and +1/+0 = 48

Where the hell did you get that from my post? 120 = 48?!

Now your calculation on the first copied rite of replication was
wrong... You see, there are 36 ondu clerics including the original... 1 +
5 copies from the original(first rite of replication) + 5 copies from
the original (second rite of replication) + 25 copies from each of the
Ondu cleric from the first rite of replication = 36 Ondu Clerics

It's not wrong. The point of this combo is you target the Nephilim, which creates copies of the spell targeting every other creature on the field at the time. There's only one of each Ally at the time of casting, so there's only five copies of each Ally. That means six Clerics, six Excavators, six Survivalists and six Battlesingers after it resolves.

Really, you're being way more random than Turbine, and it's starting to detract from the quality and integrity of every other post you've made. I neither have any idea where you're getting your information from, nor have any idea what the hell you're even saying.

Date Posted: Tue Sep/07/10 at 3:48am

shakii23

Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

First my friend, the statement was a mistake... it was i who calculated it and not you... based on your calculation should be based on my calculation... sorry about that... i edited it...

Date Posted: Tue Sep/07/10 at 3:51am

Gregorius

Posts: 411
Joined: 01-Aug-10

And the second statement? I'm still not understanding where "36 Ondu Clerics" came from.

Date Posted: Tue Sep/07/10 at 3:51am

shakii23

Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

the calculation that got me 48 was for the first and original Rite of replication (err, i mean the second copy of the RoR because it resolves first before the first copy and the original)...
Your calculation on the 120 was for the first copy, after the second copy of the spell resolved...

Edit: that makes sense, i was the one at fault here... i didn't realize that when the RoR was copied there are only 4 allies in play, so only four targets...

I got confused so forgive me for confusing you too...

[Edited by shakii23 on 7/Sep/10 at 3:54AM]

Date Posted: Tue Sep/07/10 at 3:54am

shakii23

Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

I'll edit the calculation again...

Oh no need to edit it... your calculations are correct, exact, and precise...

[Edited by shakii23 on 7/Sep/10 at 4:00AM]

Date Posted: Tue Sep/07/10 at 4:51am

Gregorius

Posts: 411
Joined: 01-Aug-10

Whew. Good. We're at agreement.

But just to humor you, I... could try and predict what happens when you duplicate the spell twice more with a Lv 4 Echo Mage (let's just say it has a Whispersilk Cloak - and therefore shroud - on it because we really don't need anymore of those in play - one is enough).

Again, I'll be using Ondu Cleric as the example here. So what if you did copy Rite of Replication twice and had it target Ink-Treader Nephilim (or one of its copies) again? They both resolve separately on the stack, so after the first 120 triggers...
► Thirty new Cleric tokens are generated, and they see themselves enter.

TOTAL NEW TRIGGERS: 30

► The "original" six Clerics each see the thirty Cleric tokens enter the field; that's thirty triggers for each of the six original Clerics, or 180 new triggers.

TOTAL NEW TRIGGERS: 30 + 180 = 210

► Each Cleric token sees all the other tokens that were generated (a total of 120 tokens generated this time, by the way); that's 119 triggers counted thirty more times... or 3,570 more triggers.

TOTAL NEW TRIGGERS: 210 + 3,570 = 3,780

Applying that to all the other Allies, that translates into:
- 544,320 more life gained by the thirty-six Ondu Clerics on this resolution;
- 544,320 more cards (that's 9,072 fully-stocked Standard-legal decks!) milled by the Halimar Excavators;
- 3,780 new +1/+1 counters on each of the thirty-six Oran-Rief Survivalists; and
- an added boost of +3,780/+0 to all Allies you control from the Akoum Battlesingers.

...and we haven't even gotten to the third resolution of the spell yet... (� w�) ...again, and excluding the first 3,900 triggers:
► 180 new Cleric tokens are generated, and they see themselves enter.

TOTAL NEW TRIGGERS: 180

► The "original" thirty-six Clerics each see the 180 Cleric tokens enter the field; 180 Clerics multiplied by 36 Clerics equals 6,480.

TOTAL NEW TRIGGERS: 180 + 6,480 = 6,660

► Oh, but it gets worse... for the opponent. Each Cleric token sees all the other new tokens that were generated - 719 other new tokens, to be precise; that's 719 triggers counted 180 more times. You know how many more triggers that makes? 129,240.

TOTAL NEW TRIGGERS: 6,660 + 129,240 = 136,080

Just with this last resolution of the spell alone...
ADDITIONAL LIFE GAINED: 136,080 triggers x 864 Allies = 117,573,120
ADDITIONAL CARDS MILLED: 136,080 triggers x 864 Allies = 117,573,120 (the equivalent of 1,959,992 fully-stocked Standard-legal decks!)
ADDITIONAL +1/+1 COUNTERS MADE: 136,080
ADDITIONAL BOOST TO YOUR ALLIES: +136,080/+0

The power of Allies... the power of Allies...

[Edited by Gregorius on 7/Sep/10 at 5:33AM]

Date Posted: Tue Sep/07/10 at 5:08am

Gregorius

Posts: 411
Joined: 01-Aug-10

So if my math is correct (which I hope it is), that means after playing and twice copying a kicked Rite of Resolution:
► ...you gained over 118 million life (or if you want to be exact, 118,120,320). That's 7,874,688 attack phases worth of damage from Emrakul.
► ...you milled enough cards to royally screw over 1,968,672 people - that's the entire population of the city of Houston, TX... and then some.
► ...your original Oran-Rief Survivalist has a P/T of 139,981/139,981 (without the Battlesingers' bonus).
► ...with the bonus granted by the Akoum Battlesingers, the Survivalist's true P/T... is 279,961/139,981 (that's enough to kill your opponent 13,998 times over... or, at the very least, kill them on the inside).

[Edited by Gregorius on 7/Sep/10 at 5:42AM]

Date Posted: Tue Sep/07/10 at 7:13am

Ephemerance

Posts: 913
Joined: 18-Jun-09

There's an easy counter to this entire trick, and that's:

Date Posted: Tue Sep/07/10 at 7:13am

Ephemerance

Posts: 913
Joined: 18-Jun-09

P.S. how do you edit posts?

Date Posted: Tue Sep/07/10 at 7:35am

Gregorius

Posts: 411
Joined: 01-Aug-10

HA HA~! WHAT NOW, HUH? HUH?! THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT.

When you're logged in, there should be a little thing that says [Edit Post] in the bottom right corner... somewhere around here: (↓)

[Edited by Gregorius on 7/Sep/10 at 7:36AM]

Date Posted: Tue Sep/07/10 at 9:42am

Mentok

Posts: 202
Joined: 26-Jul-10

Math hurts I hate you guys LOL

Date Posted: Tue Sep/07/10 at 11:53am

Ephemerance

Posts: 913
Joined: 18-Jun-09

It used to be there for me, but now the button is gone. What is it hyperlinked to? If you right click you can find where it leads, maybe I can manually create one for my posts? Any help would be appreciated, nonetheless.

Date Posted: Tue Sep/07/10 at 2:36pm

Turbine

Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

You people have even less of a life than me. (^_^)

Date Posted: Tue Sep/07/10 at 7:08pm

shakii23

Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

hahaha... math is life...

This is going to be a long thread... with all this calculations and all..

[Edited by shakii23 on 8/Sep/10 at 12:22AM]

Date Posted: Tue Sep/07/10 at 7:32pm

Gregorius

Posts: 411
Joined: 01-Aug-10

Ephemerance, I don't think that's possible unless you know the exact post number you're trying to edit.
For example, the URL to edit the post I made with the "Canopy Cover" card is:

http://www.mtgcombos.com/view.php?fid=2&tid=24731&edit=24762#24762

This is the thread ID. This is the specific post ID.
Unless you know both, then editing either is impossible. You could try, when you're logged in, just going into the pages source code (Ctrl+U in FireFox) and finding a link that might lead you to something similar to this.

Date Posted: Tue Sep/07/10 at 8:36pm

shakii23

Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

that's nice...

Date Posted: Tue Sep/07/10 at 10:17pm

gericault5

Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

Concerning the equations done above-they are all wrong-the reason they are wrong is because your thinking the 20 copies come into play at the same time, they don't. when the replication is copied you get 4 copies, each one resolves independantly, and as they resolve the ally abilities trigger and resolve before the next copy or rite resolves, as a result the numbers will change depending how you stack the copies, ie the amount of life you gain will be different if the cleric's rite is the first to resolve or the last

Date Posted: Tue Sep/07/10 at 10:20pm

shakii23

Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

oh yeah... that too... the stacked rite of replication... got to work on that later... hahaha

Date Posted: Tue Sep/07/10 at 11:38pm

Gregorius

Posts: 411
Joined: 01-Aug-10

Okay, gericault... then since you know all there is to know, feel free to answer the original question.

At the start of your turn, you have the aforementioned five creatures on the field: Akoum Battlesinger, Oran-Rief Survivalist, Halimar Excavator, Ondu Cleric and Ink-Treader Nephilim. You target the Nephilim with a kicked Rite of Replication, causing it to cast it on all of your Allies. How many times does each ability trigger, in what order do they resolve, and what do they yield?

Date Posted: Wed Sep/08/10 at 12:04am

shakii23

Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

I'm ready to answer your question Gregorius...
I'll explain every possibility...

First, there are 24 possible arrangements:
1. Ondu, Oran, Akoum, Halimar
2. Ondu, Oran, Halimar, Akoum
3. Ondu, Akoum, Oran, Halimar
4. Ondu, Akoum, Halimar, Oran
5. Ondu, Halimar, Oran, Akoum
6. Ondu, Halimar, Akoum, Oran
7. Oran, Ondu, Akoum, Halimar
8. Oran, Ondu, Halimar, Akoum
9. Oran, Akoum, Ondu, Halimar
10. Oran, Akoum, Halimar, Ondu
11. Oran, Halimar, Akoum, Ondu
12. Oran, Halimar, Ondu, Akoum
13. Akoum, Ondu, Oran, Halimar
14. Akoum, Ondu, Halimar, Oran
15. Akoum, Oran, Ondu, Halimar
16. Akoum, Oran, Halimar, Ondu
17. Akoum, Halimar, Ondu, Oran
18. Akoum, Halimar, Oran, Ondu
19. Halimar, Ondu, Oran, Akoum
20. Halimar, Ondu, Akoum, Oran
21. Halimar, Oran, Ondu, Akoum
22. Halimar, Oran, Akoum, Ondu
23. Halimar, Akoum, Ondu, Oran
24. Halimar, Akoum, Oran, Ondu

Your choice which do you want to trigger first...
LIFO - Last in First out

The calculation is this way:
1. First copy of RoR:
5 allies detecting each other entering the battlefield... 5 * 5a = 25a
1 of each ally detecting the 5 tokens coming into play...
a) 1 * 5a = 5a
b) 1 * 5b = 5b
c) 1 * 5c = 5c
d) 1 * 5d = 5d
where a being your first ally trigger
b beng your second a lly, c the third and d the fourth...

on the first right of replication, you get 9 allies in play...
getting 30 triggers of your first ally ability
5 triggers of your second ally ability
5 triggers of your third and fourth ally ability

if you choose to trigger Ondu first: you get 30 * 9 = 270 life on the first RoR...
and get 5 of each of +1/+1 counters and +1/+0...
if you choose to trigger halimar you also get 270 cards milled if you choose Halimar...
and get 5 of each of +1/+1 counters and +1/+0...
if you choose to trigger Oran first: you get 30 +1/+1 counters and 35 milled, 35 life gained, and 5 +1/+0 on all allies
if you choose to trigger Akoum first: you get 30 +1/+0 and 35 milled, 35 life gained, and 5 +1/+1 counters on all Oran

Now to the next RoR...
Calculations on the second RoR:
This gives more possibilities...LOL the number of allies so lifegain and mills will give more...
plus the new oran and original plus the new akoum and original will give more pump too...
1.) Now if you choose Oran as second trigger:
You trigger 5 orans entering the battlefield = 5*5 = 25 +1/+1 counters here...
plus 1 oran detecting 5 orans coming into play = 5
total of 30 +1/+1 counters
This also triggers 5 of each of the triggers off the first Replicated ally:
a) if the first replicated ally is halimar = you mill 14 (9 from 1st RoR + 5 from the second RoR) * 5 = 70 cards
b) if akoum = you get 5 +1/+0 triggers
c) Ondu = you get 5 * 14 number of allies = 70 life gain

2.) now if you choose halimar to trigger next, you get to mill 25+5 = 30 * 14 (number of allies after the second rite) = 420 cards milled...
this also triggers 5 of each of the other allies from the first RoR:
a) if Oran is first = you get 5 +1/+1 counters
b) if akoum = you get 5 +1/+0
c) if ondu = you get 420 life gained (same calculation as halimar)

3.) now if you choose Akoum, 30 +1/+0
this also triggers 5 of each of the allies from 1st RoR:
a.) Oran = same as akoum
b.) Ondu and halimar = same value which is 420... already calculated above...

4.) now if you choose Ondu, 30 * 14 = 420 life
this also triggers 5 of each of the allies from 1st RoR:

a.) Oran and akoum = 5

b.) halimar = same value AS oNDU... already calculated above...

Now unto the third RoR:
this one is trickier than ever:
1.) Halimar = we now have 14+5 = 19 allies
19 * 30 = 570 milled
Edit: I'll continue this later... I've got work to do...

[Edited by shakii23 on 8/Sep/10 at 12:19AM]

[Edited by shakii23 on 8/Sep/10 at 5:12AM]

[Edited by shakii23 on 8/Sep/10 at 5:27AM]

Date Posted: Wed Sep/08/10 at 11:00pm

gericault5

Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

Ok Gregorius i'm game, as shakii said above there are 24 possible combinations on how the copies of rite will resolve, its based on how you, as the controller of the copies, choose to stack them- LIFO- so we can use number 13 since i like that number-Akoum, Ondu, Oran, Halimar with akoum resolving first. if you follow the formulas I list below you can get the answer in any combination or ally, just need to figure out what formula pairs up, ie the formula used with oran can also be used with blademaster or freeblade, hagra uses the same formula as ondu and halimar.

Rite Forumlas-used when resolving a rite cast on ally

Ondu-(number of ondus play x number of each trigger) times # of allies = (6 x 5) x 6 = 180 life
halimar-(number of halimar play x number of each trigger) times # of allies = (6 x 5) x 6 = 180 mill
oran-rief- (number of oran play x number of triggers) / # of oran-riefs = (6 x 5) / 6= 30 counters 5 on each
akoum -(number of akoum play x number of each trigger) times # of allies / # of allies = (6 x 5) x 6 = 180 / 6 = +30/0 to all allies

non-rite formulas -used when another ally enters the field

Ondu-(number of ondus in play x number of allies enter play) times # of allies
halimar-(number of halimar in play x number of allies enter play) times # of allies
oran-rief- (number of oran in play x number of allies entering play) / # of oran-riefs
akoum -(number of akoum in play x number of allies entering play) times # of allies / # of allys

Rite targeting akoum resolves=9 allys in play

-(number of akoum play x number of each trigger) times # of allies / # of allies = (6 x 5) x 9 = 270/ 9 = +30/0 to all allies in play
Ondu- 1 x 5 x 9 = 45 life
oran-rief- 5 / 1 = 5 counters on oran
halimar- 1 x 5 x 9 = 45 mill

rite targeting ondu resolves =14 allys in play

akoum -(6 x 5) 14 / 14 = +30/0 to all allies in play
Ondu-(6 x 5) x 14 = 420 life = currently 465 life gained
oran-rief- 5 / 1 = 5 counters on oran = total of 10 counters on oran
halimar- 1 x 5 x 14 = 70 mill = currently 115 cards milled

rite targeting oran resolves= 19 allys in play

akoum -(6 x 5) 19 / 18 = +30/0 to all allies in play
Ondu-(6 x 5) x 19 = 570 life = currently 1035 life gained
oran-rief- (6 x 5) / 6 = 5 counters on each oran = total of 15 counters on orignal
halimar- 1 x 5 x 19 = 95 mill = currently 210 cards milled

rite targeting halimar resolves= 24 allys in play

akoum -(6 x 5) 24 / 24 = +30/0 to all allies in play
Ondu-(6 x 5) x 24 = 720 life = currently 1755 life gained
oran-rief- (6 x 5) / 6 = 5 counters on each oran = total of 20 counters on orignal, 10 on others
halimar- 6 x 5 x 24 = 720 mill = currently 930 cards milled

So end results once everything resolves, not counting triggered abilitys that occured before the combo

930 milled cards
1755 life gained
6 akoum - all have +120/0
6 Ondu - orginal has +120/0, all other ondu have +90/0
6 Oran - orginal has +120/0 and 20 counters, all others have +60/0 and 10 counters
6 halimar -orginal has +120/0, all others have +30/0
6 ink-treader nephilim