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Combo Name: WIN IN FIVE TURNS Submitted By: PHATGROWER
Card Name
Type
Cost
P/T
Editions (ordered by release)

Paradigm Shift
 Sorcery 1U Weatherlight, Rare

Rebound
 Instant 1U Stronghold, Uncommon

Tormod's Crypt
 Artifact 0 The Dark, Uncommon
Estimated Combo Cost: $1.83
Date Posted: Fri Nov/20/09 at 10:25 am

PHATGROWER
Posts: 37
Joined: 20-Nov-09

TORMOD'S CRYPT COST 0 TO PLAY ARTIFACT TAP SACRIFICE TORMOD'S CRYPT REMOVE ALL CARDS IN TARGET PLAYERS GRAVEYARD FROM GAME(YOUR OPPONENT) THEN PLAY PARADIGM SHIFT,COST 1 BLUE 1 COLORLESS, REMOVE ALL CARDS IN YOUR LIBRARY FROM GAME.SHUFFLE YOUR GRAVEYARD INTO YOUR LIBRARY. THEN PLAY REBOUND,COST 1 BLUE 1 COLORLESS, TARGET SPELL ,WHICH TARGETS ONLY A SINGLE PLAYER,TARGETS ANOTHER PLAYER OF YOUR CHOICE INSTEAD.(YOUR OPPONENT)ON THERE NEXT TURN THEY HAVE NO CARD TO DRAW YOU WIN TAKES FOUR LANDS.
Date Posted: Fri Nov/20/09 at 10:33am

Dechala
Posts: 20
Joined: 16-Nov-09

Paradigm Shift doesn't target. But given a Hive Mind it might be do able.
Date Posted: Fri Nov/20/09 at 4:22pm

ghostfire86
Posts: 496
Joined: 04-Nov-09

Sorry man this don't work. I had the same problem with a combo of mine with mana severance and divert.
Date Posted: Fri Nov/20/09 at 5:09pm

PHATGROWER
Posts: 37
Joined: 20-Nov-09

yes it does work done it more than once
Date Posted: Fri Nov/20/09 at 5:52pm

PHATGROWER
Posts: 37
Joined: 20-Nov-09

if thats the case a counterspell is a worthless card then being it reads counter target spell
Date Posted: Fri Nov/20/09 at 7:45pm

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

The key word in counterspell is TARGET. Like mana severance, Paradigm shift does not utilize the word "target" so it does not target and therefore can not be changed by rebound. Sorry but if it worked before it was before rules changed or you were playing it incorrectly.
Take a look at Ghostfire's thread with mana severance and divert, the rulings on why this would not work are posted there.
Date Posted: Fri Nov/20/09 at 11:48pm

PHATGROWER
Posts: 37
Joined: 20-Nov-09

im 35 been playing for 15 years and the word you and yours makes you the target of a spell
Date Posted: Sat Nov/21/09 at 12:59am

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

just because you have been playing for years doesn't mean its right.
Rules change, and yes it did work at one time, the rules have changed since then, now they even specify that the word "you" does not mean your a "target". check out ghostfire's thread, the current rules are there and this combo does not work under the curent rules of Magic.

[Edited by gericault5 on 21/Nov/09 at 1:17AM]
Date Posted: Sat Nov/21/09 at 1:23am

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

its a shame they dont work, both this and ghostfires, were sweet combos and would have dominated alot of games when they could be played.
Date Posted: Sat Nov/21/09 at 8:21pm

PHATGROWER
Posts: 37
Joined: 20-Nov-09

ok rebound wont work then i found a card that will win in 7 turns deflection
Date Posted: Sat Nov/21/09 at 9:54pm

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

The problem is not the card your using to divert, swerve, mis(re)direct, rebound, etc... the problem is that under the current rules paradigm shift does not target and is not a legal target for a redirection spell because of it.

I dont know how aware you are of these rules change so forgive me if i sound condescending, Wizards decide to rewrite some rules to make the game easier for beginners to understand and play, for example, there's new words for old stuff, a new game zone, combat damage doesn't stack anymore(no more mogg fanatic shenagins), mana burn-a thing of the past. Remember the Urza saga card Brand-take control of everything you own-people use to play it with the war riders, infernal genesis, ravinca's hunted creatures, since the rules then were tokens are owned by the person who controls the source of there creation. Anyway Brand has become worthless, as the new rules state tokens are owned by the person who controls them when they come into play.(lost a really fun deck because of that one)
Ok I'm digressing, however, my point is the recent rules have changed alot of the game we older players experienced, and unless we are playing others who don't follow the new rules we need to learn them.
So I asked you to read Ghostfire's thread, however, i assume you didn't so here it is from the new rules
113.1a An instant or sorcery spell is targeted if its spell ability identifies something it will affect by using the phrase “target [something],” where the “something” is a phrase that describes an object, player, or zone.

113.9a Just because an object or player is being affected by a spell or ability doesn’t make that object or player a target of that spell or ability. Unless that object or player is identified by the word “target” in the text of that spell or ability, or the rule for that keyword ability, it is not a target.

113.9b In particular, the word “you” in an object’s text doesn’t indicate a target.

So you see from the rules paradigm shift does not use the word target and therefore can not be redirected.
Date Posted: Sun Nov/22/09 at 12:01am

PHATGROWER
Posts: 37
Joined: 20-Nov-09

look Rebound quotes. Target player,which targets only a single player, targets another player of your choice instead. ...right Deflection reads. Target spell with a single target now targets a new target of your choice. there is no comma in Deflection as the same as a Counterspell as I said if thats the case Counterspell is worthless

[Edited by PHATGROWER on 22/Nov/09 at 12:02AM]

[Edited by PHATGROWER on 22/Nov/09 at 12:03AM]

[Edited by PHATGROWER on 22/Nov/09 at 12:07AM]
Date Posted: Sun Nov/22/09 at 12:06am

PHATGROWER
Posts: 37
Joined: 20-Nov-09

Come on now counter TARGET spell is what the card reads so there for you can only counter a spell that TARGETS someone or somthing
Date Posted: Sun Nov/22/09 at 12:09am

PHATGROWER
Posts: 37
Joined: 20-Nov-09

then shift cant be counterspelled, COUNTER TARGET SPELL!!!!!!!!!!

[Edited by PHATGROWER on 22/Nov/09 at 1:10AM]
Date Posted: Sun Nov/22/09 at 1:30am

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

I do realize what you are trying to say, however, the part you do not realize is that what deflection says is not what is printed on the card. Cards were printed years ago, with rule changes they need to be updated to confirm with the new rules, rather then reprint everything Wizards only updates the Oracle Text(its alot cheaper that way) as a result the Oracle is the end all for what a card does.
The oracle text for Deflection is: Change the target of target spell with a single target. Basically meaning "I'm targeting A, ok now I'm targeting B"
The Oracle Text for Paradgim Shift is: Exile all cards from your library. Then shuffle your graveyard into your library.
So now look at rule 113.9a-b, from there you can see that the word "target" needs to be in the text to qualify as targeting something, and that "you" does not qualify as a target. Since the Oracle text says paradigm shift does not have "target" in the text it doesn't target, which is why Deflection doesn't work. You can't change a target if nothings being targeted, ie Shift isn't targeting A.
As for Counterspell you target the spell you want to counter. it doesn't care what that spell is targeting, if anything. Deflection/rebound does care, so while you can use Shift as the "target spell", when deflection looks for the shifts target it doesn't find anything and fizzles as a result.
Date Posted: Sun Nov/22/09 at 2:00am

ghostfire86
Posts: 496
Joined: 04-Nov-09

Look the easy way to settle all disputes that even surpasses oracle is to just call mtg for a ruling. Their number is 1-800-324-6496. You call and an official judge will answer any question that you might have. Remember it's an official judge so what he says is pretty much law. I have never seen a mtg judge's ruling over turned by another.
Date Posted: Wed Oct/27/10 at 1:55pm

veeohla
Posts: 2
Joined: 27-Oct-10

okay okay what about something like Recurring Insight that says "Draw cards equal to the number of cards in target opponent's hand." Am I allowed to redirect that to myself and make my the other play draw cards or am I not a valid target since they use the word "Opponent"
Date Posted: Wed Oct/27/10 at 3:40pm

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

its the second one, you are not a valid target since you are not your opponent. you can redirect it to another opponent in a multiplayer game
Date Posted: Wed Oct/27/10 at 6:45pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

STOP USING CAPS LOCK!
Date Posted: Wed Oct/27/10 at 9:11pm

veeohla
Posts: 2
Joined: 27-Oct-10

yeah i figured that, I forever get into arguments with my friends over rules... back during the Urza block we'd call the hotline all the time asking about rulings lol
Date Posted: Thu Oct/28/10 at 5:13am

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

I've gotten into arguments with some of my less. . .knowing friends. One though that you payed separate costs for two Xs.
Date Posted: Thu Oct/28/10 at 7:58am

Ephemerance
Posts: 913
Joined: 18-Jun-09

I think it's ironic that we're arguing about how paradigm shift doesn't operate in the way he thinks it does because of a paradigm shift in the wording of cards.
Date Posted: Thu Oct/28/10 at 8:27am

Seraphic
Posts: 123
Joined: 03-Apr-09

 4/1/2008
Paradigm Shift http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=4492

Rebound  http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=5209

 

Please point out where in the context of Paradigm Shift do you see the word "target".  From what I can see, I do not see the word "target". Thus, brings me to Rebound. Now if you were scroll down and click the little tab that reads "Display Rulings".

As you can read, by ruling of Wizards them self.

You can't use this on a spell unless the target spell is an Aura or uses the word "target" in its text. If it isn't an Aura and the word "target" is not there, then the spell does not target a player at all—it just affects a player without targeting them.

Court adjorned.
Date Posted: Thu Oct/28/10 at 12:21pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

There was no argument. We all know that it doesn't work. They were arguing about something else entirely.
Date Posted: Thu Oct/28/10 at 2:11pm

Seraphic
Posts: 123
Joined: 03-Apr-09

It's just capping of the rules on rebound and paradigm shift. It also had the ruling for anything that "targets' in it.
Date Posted: Thu Oct/28/10 at 2:29pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

The rebound art is funny.



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