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Date Posted: Sun Aug/15/10 at 4:44 pm

MCNest
Posts: 10
Joined: 28-Jul-09

by zapherion

>Have Monolith - Rings into play, tap Monolith for 3, using the untap ability > Pay 2 (from other source(s)) to copy the Monolith\'s untap ability > In between the resolution of the ability and it\'s copy, tap Monolith for 3 > Then after the original ability resolves tap Monolith again, netting you 6 mana >use 5 to repeat (or not) and net 1 mana each time...

http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=85362
Date Posted: Sun Aug/15/10 at 4:52pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

This looks amazing!
Date Posted: Sun Aug/15/10 at 4:52pm

psyche
Posts: 1250
Joined: 31-Aug-09

I just talked to an orc online who is also a judge. This wouldn't work because the ability doesn't target the card. As a self effect i can not target its self and still work. The word target is missing. In short the combos that were posted on this site should be re looked at in the new light of target being missing for some of the abilities. Training grounds would work though.
Date Posted: Sun Aug/15/10 at 5:33pm

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

why would if matter if the ability targets or not.  rings copies the ability, and the copy will resolve as the ability would

706.9b A copy of an ability has the same source as the original ability. If the ability refers to its source by name, the copy refers to that same object and not to any other object with the same name. The copy is considered to be the same ability by effects that count how many times that ability has resolved during the turn.
Date Posted: Sun Aug/15/10 at 5:38pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

Yay, a new way to get out Emrakul.
Date Posted: Sun Aug/15/10 at 5:55pm

psyche
Posts: 1250
Joined: 31-Aug-09

Ok. So the basis of you argument is that the target part is ignored because you have targeted the ability, and the part of choosing targets is Non applicable. Accepting that makes the rest of the card work just fine. Since you can use the stack to tap it for mana between the untap triggers this can work. Dealing with a judge on this will be a pain, but i think that you have it down there. gericault5 i accept you rebuttal. You win.
Date Posted: Sun Aug/15/10 at 6:09pm

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

its not that targeting is ignored, it's there is none involved,  activate a non mana ability, pay 2 copy it, its as simple as that.

the only mention of target on rings is you can choose new targets, this only refers to coping abilitys that target something, for example royal assassin targets a tapped creature, with the rings copy you can use the copy to target a differant creature,  since we are not copying an ability that targets this has no bearing on us
Date Posted: Sun Aug/15/10 at 6:14pm

Captain_Joe
Posts: 80
Joined: 20-Jul-10

are you sure the ability isnt a mana ability?
Date Posted: Sun Aug/15/10 at 6:24pm

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

a mana ability is one that generates mana such as llanowar elves, so while the basalts tap ability is a mana one, its untap is not and can be copied
Date Posted: Sun Aug/15/10 at 6:27pm

wurtnik
Posts: 342
Joined: 08-May-10

your not copying the add 3 mana to your pool bit, your copying the 3: untap ability
Date Posted: Sun Aug/15/10 at 6:39pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

Yes, exactly. Mana abilities add mana, not require.
Date Posted: Sun Aug/15/10 at 7:13pm

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

some mana abilitys do require you to pay a cost for them, bog witch for example

the main difference is a mana ability is an ability that doesn;t target and can add mana to he pool. so something that says tap:destory target creature add 1 mana to your pool, is not an mana ability since it targets but if it just said tap: add 1 mana to pool then it would be
Date Posted: Sun Aug/15/10 at 7:15pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

That makes sense.
Date Posted: Mon Aug/16/10 at 4:51am

Gregorius
Posts: 412
Joined: 01-Aug-10

As awesome (and thought-provoking) as this is, wouldn't it just be faster (and far less mind-boggling) to just use Basalt Monolith + Karn's Touch + Training Grounds?
Date Posted: Mon Aug/16/10 at 10:53pm

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

Emrakul FTW!




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