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The Complete Anti-Eldrazi

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Food ChainEnlarge

Food Chain

{2}{G}

Enchantment

Mercadian Masques

Read rules for Food Chain
Exile a creature you control: Add X mana of any one color, where X is 1 plus the exiled creature's mana value. Spend this mana only to cast creature spells.

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Mycosynth LatticeEnlarge

Mycosynth Lattice

{6}

Artifact

Darksteel

Read rules for Mycosynth Lattice
All permanents are artifacts in addition to their other types. All cards that aren't on the battlefield, spells, and permanents are colorless. Players may spend mana as though it were mana of any color.

Full card details & printings ›

Helm of PossessionEnlarge

Helm of Possession

{4}

Artifact

Tempest

Read rules for Helm of Possession
You may choose not to untap this artifact during your untap step. {2}, {T}, Sacrifice a creature: Gain control of target creature for as long as you control this artifact and this artifact remains tapped.

Full card details & printings ›

Date Posted: Mon Aug/09/10 at 6:11 pm

Gregorius
Posts: 412
Joined: 01-Aug-10

By no means cheap, but it is self-explanatory. Put out Food Chain → put Helm of Possession into play → when an Eldrazi¹² comes into play on the opponent's side, you can play Humble and turn it into a 0/1 creature with no abilities. Then use Helm of Possession to take control of it, and exile it with Food Chain for mana.

"What's that - you paid ten mana for Kozilek? Well, now I have eleven free mana! Say hello to Darksteel Colossus!"

¹ Fountain Watch is there in case your opponent manages to play Ulamog.
² You'll need Mycosynth Lattice in play if you want to use this combo against Emrakul.
Date Posted: Mon Aug/09/10 at 6:15pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

Why would you need Mycosynth Lattice?
Date Posted: Mon Aug/09/10 at 6:18pm

Gregorius
Posts: 412
Joined: 01-Aug-10

Emrakul has protection from colored spells.
Mycosynth Lattice makes everything in every zone colorless.

You do the math.
Date Posted: Mon Aug/09/10 at 6:20pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

Ovinomancer!
Date Posted: Mon Aug/09/10 at 6:27pm

Gregorius
Posts: 412
Joined: 01-Aug-10

Wouldn't work quite the same.
Ulamog's indestructible, and when Emrakul and Kozilek go the graveyard, they go back into the opponent's library.

As Google would say: "Did you mean: Ovinize ?"
Date Posted: Mon Aug/09/10 at 6:33pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

Ovinomancer would still kill Emrakul though! Ovinize couldn't target it!
Date Posted: Mon Aug/09/10 at 6:41pm

Gregorius
Posts: 412
Joined: 01-Aug-10

"When Emrakul is put into a graveyard from anywhere, its owner shuffles his or her graveyard into his or her library."
Even though it does work - I'm not saying it doesn't - I'm afraid Ovinomancer's ability is only a temporary salvation. The only good Eldrazi is an exiled Eldrazi.
Date Posted: Mon Aug/09/10 at 6:48pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

Oblivion Ring, maybe?
Date Posted: Mon Aug/09/10 at 6:51pm

Gregorius
Posts: 412
Joined: 01-Aug-10

Not worth it. It's only temporarily exiled. Plus, Oblivion Ring costs less to destroy then it does to cast.
Your opponent could just play Demystify for W and get rid of Oblivion Ring easily.
Date Posted: Mon Aug/09/10 at 7:12pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

No one plays Demystify!
Date Posted: Mon Aug/09/10 at 7:16pm

Gregorius
Posts: 412
Joined: 01-Aug-10

Maybe no one plays Demystify because no one else plays Oblivion Ring... (¯ 3¯)
Date Posted: Mon Aug/09/10 at 7:18pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

I do. And a lot of people sideboard it specifically for Eldrazi.
Date Posted: Mon Aug/09/10 at 7:31pm

Gregorius
Posts: 412
Joined: 01-Aug-10

Still, how many different cards are there that "destroy target enchantment" for CMC 3 or less.
Date Posted: Mon Aug/09/10 at 7:36pm

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

first off ovinmancer does work, though its not exile unless you follow it with something that removes the grave before the ability resolves like tormonds crypt.  you can also use humility followed by pte.

edited for correction below


[Edited by gericault5 on 9/Aug/10 at 8:04PM]
Date Posted: Mon Aug/09/10 at 7:45pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

A judge told me it would work. If he thinks so, then I can play it.
Date Posted: Mon Aug/09/10 at 8:03pm

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

Yup... you need the Simic Guildmage...
Date Posted: Mon Aug/09/10 at 8:04pm

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

actually your right turbine, i forgot that o-ring enters the field first then does its thing
Date Posted: Mon Aug/09/10 at 8:25pm

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

Oh then it can remove Emarakul... cool!
Date Posted: Mon Aug/09/10 at 8:28pm

Gregorius
Posts: 412
Joined: 01-Aug-10

Yes, Oblivion Ring would work... temporarily. It's a generic enchantment that says:
"When Oblivion Ring enters the battlefield, exile another target nonland permanent.
When Oblivion Ring leaves the battlefield, return the exiled card to the battlefield under its owner's control."

So what stops someone from playing any instant that destroys enchantments? It's not like there's just one.
Date Posted: Mon Aug/09/10 at 8:29pm

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

Yup... there's iona... Orim's chant... Ummmm, ummmm, silence?
Date Posted: Mon Aug/09/10 at 8:36pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

Seems like there is something wrong here.

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=220502&part=Wax
Date Posted: Mon Aug/09/10 at 8:44pm

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

so turn o-ring into a permanent solution by beating them to the punch.

play o-ring and when the remove from game ability goes on the stack, cast a disenchant on oring, the n the return to play ability goes on the stack. it resolves but nothing happens since nothing was removed yet, the remove from game ability resolves and you permanantly remove emrukel from the game
Date Posted: Mon Aug/09/10 at 9:12pm

Gregorius
Posts: 412
Joined: 01-Aug-10

Uh, geri, are you sure that works the way you say it works? 'Cause I'll be honest, that makes no sense the way you stated it.
Why would Emrakul or anyone be exiled after you yourself destroy the enchantment before declaring a creature to be exiled?
Date Posted: Mon Aug/09/10 at 9:17pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

It worked the same with Saproling Burst.
Date Posted: Mon Aug/09/10 at 9:47pm

Gregorius
Posts: 412
Joined: 01-Aug-10

...maybe I should rephrase my last post. I'm not asking "does it work?" (well, actually, I sort of am) but "how does it work?"... it's just not clicking up in this hollow skull of mine.

And what's Saproling Burst got to do with this? >_>
Date Posted: Mon Aug/09/10 at 9:53pm

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

saproling burst has nothing to do with this, it doesn't do the same thing so pay him no mind

 

basically it  works by using the how the two triggers resolve on the stack.  let me break it down it might make it easier to understand

when oring enters play the remove from game trigger is place on the stack,  for that to resolve both players must pass without playing anything, so instead of passing play disenchant, so now the stack looks like this

  • disenchant
  • remove from game trigger
stack resolve top down so the disenchant resolves first destroying oring.  once oring leaves play the return to trigger ability goes on the stack, which now looks like

  • return to game trigger
  • remove from game trigger
the return to game trigger then resolves, however, since the remove trigger is still on the stack, there is nothing to return since nothing was removed yet, so it fizzles. 

at that point the remove from game trigger resolves removing the permanent from the game.  since the return trigger has already resolved there is no way to bring it back.

the thing to remember is once a spell or ability is on the stack the only way to get them off is they resolve or the owner leaves the game

hope that clarifys things
Date Posted: Mon Aug/09/10 at 10:22pm

Gregorius
Posts: 412
Joined: 01-Aug-10

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
Oh. Ohhhh. Ohh. Oh-ho-ho~.

Okay, I get you now.... it took a trip to the Gatherer website before I finally understood. Clever. Very clever.
Date Posted: Mon Aug/09/10 at 11:01pm

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

LOL... You took a trip?
Date Posted: Mon Aug/09/10 at 11:34pm

Gregorius
Posts: 412
Joined: 01-Aug-10

Figure of speech. That's all.

I could make a D&D joke about 'taking a trip', but... place and time for everything.
Date Posted: Tue Aug/10/10 at 4:19am

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

When i learned the rules about stacking spells and effects from MtGCombos.com guys, i now have a deeper understanding and learned a deeper concept than just our ordinary casting and paying mana and letting spells and abilities take its effects without doing anything when you can do something...
Date Posted: Tue Aug/10/10 at 12:00pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

Couldn't you remove all the counters then destroy Saproling Burst in response or something like that?
Date Posted: Tue Aug/10/10 at 12:16pm

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

you counld but it wouldn;t do anything. reason being is the token p/t is equal to the number of counters on burst. no burst no counters so a 0/0 token.

however if you have a gaeas anthemor the like in play, then yes you can remove the counters and then destory it before the trigger goes off so you will have 1/1's
Date Posted: Tue Aug/10/10 at 4:44pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

Ah. There was a similar card though.
Date Posted: Tue Aug/10/10 at 5:32pm

ParadoxRemix
Posts: 389
Joined: 22-Feb-10

The reason you're thinking of Saproling Burst is because you're subconciously comparing it to the Parallax enchantments. Parallax Nexus, Parallax Tide, and Parallax Wave all work the same way as Saproling Burst, Oblivion Ring, Journey To Nowhere, etc. They key is to have the LTB (leaves the battlefield) effect resolve before anything else, which means you need to have it trigger last.

With Burst or the Parallax cards, this means activating their abilities until there are no fading counters left on them. With these abilities on the stack, you use something to remove the enchantment from the battlefield. When you do, nothing is returned because nothing has left yet. In the case of Saproling Burst, your tokens won't be destroyed.
Date Posted: Tue Aug/10/10 at 5:40pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

Yeah. That's the one I'm thinking of!
Date Posted: Thu Aug/19/10 at 6:02pm

fr8o
Posts: 1
Joined: 19-Aug-10

I hate these new creatures of crazy power, so why not just use Duplicant and be done? Or even better use Jester's Cap and be proactive about the worst ones, or Legacy Weapon though it is expensive to activate?
Date Posted: Thu Aug/19/10 at 6:50pm

Gregorius
Posts: 412
Joined: 01-Aug-10

...because it's an awesome new cash-grab scheme devised by Wizards?

Kids get a new set to tool around with; collectors can find and sell the more expensive cards; then Wizards determines their success by how many packs and cards have been bought and re-sold, giving them a model of what should be re-printed for players both new and old to get their hands on, all the while stimulating the economy.

Conspiracy theory in short, Wizards prints 'em, hypes 'em, and gets kids to buy 'em. Then by what sells, they make records, re-print the cards and get more money to continue the cycle.
Date Posted: Thu Aug/19/10 at 7:22pm

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

LOL... Another well thought out plan to take over the world? ROFL
Date Posted: Thu Aug/19/10 at 7:24pm

Twogunkid
Posts: 2610
Joined: 22-Jan-10

KAHN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is what I think when I try to read everything
Date Posted: Thu Aug/19/10 at 7:37pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

Ok. . .?




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