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Another turn 1 win

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Ebony CharmEnlarge

Ebony Charm

{B}

Instant

World Championship Decks 1997

Read rules for Ebony Charm
Choose one — • Target opponent loses 1 life and you gain 1 life. • Exile up to three target cards from a single graveyard. • Target creature gains fear until end of turn. (It can't be blocked except by artifact creatures and/or black creatures.)

Full card details & printings ›

Date Posted: Sat Jul/10/10 at 7:10 pm

ARCANIS
Posts: 86
Joined: 22-Feb-10

Basically the same as the last one I posted using 6 cards 1 to spare, except it's a different creature and no Stifle.
Date Posted: Sat Jul/10/10 at 7:23pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

Great.
Date Posted: Sun Jul/11/10 at 12:56am

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

Next game please!
Date Posted: Sun Jul/11/10 at 4:50am

Ephemerance
Posts: 913
Joined: 18-Jun-09

Doesn't work.

Minion of the Wastes needs to be cast from your hand in order for you to pay the life to pump up it's power and toughness.
Date Posted: Sun Jul/11/10 at 8:16am

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

"The life is paid as it enters the battlefield, not as a cost to cast it. If it's countered, you don't pay any life."

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=4675
Date Posted: Sun Jul/11/10 at 6:30pm

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

Turbine saves the day again... Now who says that turbine only posts negative comments...
Date Posted: Sun Jul/11/10 at 8:53pm

Ephemerance
Posts: 913
Joined: 18-Jun-09

If you put the Minion into play by using Shallow Grave's ability, you aren't casting it, and therefore that trigger doesn't occur.


In the event that you do cast it from your hand, yes, you would play it as it hits the battlefield, not as you cast it (because of the timing with the trigger).

I accept that it is possible that I can be wrong, but as far as my knowledge of the rules extend, this doesn't work.
Date Posted: Sun Jul/11/10 at 9:48pm

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

Maybe we should check the card ruling?
Date Posted: Mon Jul/12/10 at 2:15am

ARCANIS
Posts: 86
Joined: 22-Feb-10

Ephemerance, you are wrong because it is clearly stated on both cards that " When you play Minion of the Wastes", doesn't say it has to be casted from your hand. And " Put the top creature card from your graveyard into play as though it were just played", note that they both have the word "play", so therefore and don't see why this wouldn't work. [Edited by ARCANIS on 12/Jul/10 at 2:17AM] [Edited by ARCANIS on 12/Jul/10 at 2:18AM]

[Edited by ARCANIS on 12/Jul/10 at 2:28AM]
Date Posted: Mon Jul/12/10 at 2:24am

ARCANIS
Posts: 86
Joined: 22-Feb-10

Oh and by the way I see that you changed back to your old avatar shakii. What made you changed, the other one was pretty cool.
Date Posted: Mon Jul/12/10 at 4:27am

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

LOL... i wanted turbine to change back to his old avatar so i changed back...
Date Posted: Mon Jul/12/10 at 5:00am

Ephemerance
Posts: 913
Joined: 18-Jun-09

It's still not right.

The older phrasing "when you play" has always meant when you are casting a spell (usually from the hand but sometimes other places if you have a card like Knowledge Exploitation). The oracle text for that Minion card is "As an additional cost to cast Minion of the Wastes, pay any amount of life."

Shallow grave is a spell which changes the location of the card (from graveyard to play). But It doesn't cause you to cast Minion of the Wastes from the graveyard, and so you can't pay the additional cost that would trigger if it were cast.

If you were to use something like Yawgmoth's Will you could cast it and thus be forced to pay it's additional cost for casting it.
Date Posted: Mon Jul/12/10 at 5:08am

Ephemerance
Posts: 913
Joined: 18-Jun-09

Shallow Grave's line "as though it were just played" is a reminder text meaning to tell you to check any triggers relating to a creature entering the battlefield. Such as Predatory Hunger, or anything else that has a "when a creature enters the battlefield" trigger.

This shouldn't be confused with casting. The oracle text for Shallow Grave tries to clear up any confusion about this: "Return the top creature card of your graveyard to the battlefield.
That creature gains haste until end of turn. Exile it at the beginning
of the next end step."

I'm almost certain this combo doesn't work.


[Edited by Ephemerance on 12/Jul/10 at 5:16AM]
Date Posted: Mon Jul/12/10 at 9:29am

ARCANIS
Posts: 86
Joined: 22-Feb-10

Where is Gericault5 when we need him LOL. Hey and BTW where is he anyway, haven't seen him in a while now...... anybody knows if he's gone away or something?????????
Date Posted: Mon Jul/12/10 at 6:07pm

Ephemerance
Posts: 913
Joined: 18-Jun-09

Haha, I completely agree, that guy is uber knowledgeable :P

I don't know, I think he's posted at least one thing this week
Date Posted: Tue Jul/13/10 at 4:27am

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

I think he's on a vacation or something... Even turbine... Turbine has a camp of some type he has to attend to so we're lonely...




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