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Kentaro, the Smiling CatEnlarge

Kentaro, the Smiling Cat

{1}{W}

Legendary Creature — Human Samurai

Betrayers of Kamigawa

Read rules for Kentaro, the Smiling Cat
Bushido 1 (Whenever this creature blocks or becomes blocked, it gets +1/+1 until end of turn.) You may pay {X} rather than pay the mana cost for Samurai spells you cast, where X is that spell's mana value.

2/1

Full card details & printings ›

ConspiracyEnlarge

Conspiracy

{3}{B}{B}

Enchantment

Time Spiral Timeshifted

Read rules for Conspiracy
As this enchantment enters, choose a creature type. Creatures you control are the chosen type. The same is true for creature spells you control and creature cards you own that aren't on the battlefield.

Full card details & printings ›

Date Posted: Sun Jul/04/10 at 6:09 pm

Twogunkid
Posts: 2610
Joined: 22-Jan-10

Found my old Kentaro deck. Basically work till you can play creature spells for free
Date Posted: Sun Jul/04/10 at 7:52pm

psyche
Posts: 1250
Joined: 31-Aug-09

The alternate cost from Kentaro, the Smiling Cat doesn't go down because of Helm of Awakening. The Helm of Awakening doesn't change the converted casting cost. Also x can't be reduced by things like training grounds and heartstone. X is checked against the casting cost of the creature. The Kentaro, the Smiling Cat and Conspiracy does work. A second Conspiracy and haakon, stormgald scourge would be very interesting.
Date Posted: Sun Jul/04/10 at 10:23pm

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

the X on Kentaro is not CMC so it will not be reduced by Helm of Awakening...
Date Posted: Mon Jul/05/10 at 9:15am

Zark-the-Damned
Posts: 523
Joined: 24-Feb-10

Two conspiracies with Haakon would not work for this - Conspiracy removes all existing creature types and replaces them with the type you chose. You would only get the effect of one.

What you'd need is Ashes of the Fallen.

EDIT: Accidentally clicked post before I finished...

Kentaro plus Helm DOES work though. It doesn't matter that Helm doesn't affect the CMC of the Samurai card, because Kentaro gives you an alternate cost to pay. And THAT cost IS reduced by 1.

E.g. you are playing Lord Konda.

Normally you have to pay 5WW. Kentaro says you can pay 7 instead. (And a Dream Halls would say you can discard a white card instead).

You have to pick one of these costs to pay. Assuming you pick one with a mana cost (i.e. the 7 from Kentaro) the cost is reduced by one (so, 6 with one Helm).

[Edited by Zark-the-Damned on 5/Jul/10 at 9:25AM]
Date Posted: Mon Jul/05/10 at 11:57am

psyche
Posts: 1250
Joined: 31-Aug-09

where does it mention REMOVING creature types. Rogue and goblin are 2 different creatures types, and there are creatures that are both. A creature can have multiple creature types, so there is no automatic removal of creature type when a creature type is added. The gather ruling is "10/4/2004    It does not replace any use of creature types in card text."
Date Posted: Mon Jul/05/10 at 12:10pm

Zark-the-Damned
Posts: 523
Joined: 24-Feb-10

Conspiracy states:

'Creature cards you own that aren't on the battlefield, creature spells you control, and creatures you control are the chosen type.'

It doesn't explicitly mention removing creature types because it doesn't have to. It SETS the creature type of all creature cards to what you chose.

Compare this to Ashes of the Fallen:

'Each creature card in your graveyard has the chosen creature type in addition to its other types.'

This one explicitly mentions the new creature type is in addition to the old ones.

Relevant ruling from http://mtgsalvation.com/667-cranial-insertion-conspiracy-to-commit-delay.html

Q: Since Conspiracy does not say 'in addition to their other creature types' that means that it gets rid of their old types? (irrelevant bit about legendary creatures removed)

A: Yes. When an effect changes a permanent's type or subtype, it "overwrites" whatever the permanent might have already had unless the effect specifies otherwise. (See Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth for an example of adding a subtype to a card without removing its old ones.)

EDIT: The ruling you mention, '10/4/2004 It does not replace any use of creature types in card text.' is referring to the text box on the creature card.

For instance, if you were playing a Sliver deck and someone Donated you a Conspiracy set to 'Kavu', your Slivers still have their normal abilities, e.g. 'Sliver creatures get +1/+1'. The abilities are not changed to fit the Conspiracy.

[Edited by Zark-the-Damned on 5/Jul/10 at 12:13PM]
Date Posted: Mon Jul/05/10 at 11:07pm

psyche
Posts: 1250
Joined: 31-Aug-09

checked and verified. You are right Zark. Thanks for the site.
Date Posted: Tue Jul/06/10 at 11:23pm

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

That changes it... So Helm does reduce the cost... Cool! Yay for Zark...




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