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Combo Name: infinite turn Submitted By: hunter_raine
Card Name
Type
Cost
P/T
Editions (ordered by release)

Vanishing
 Enchant Creature U Visions, Common

Wormfang Manta
 Creature - Nightmare Beast 5UU 6/1 Judgment, Rare
Estimated Combo Cost: $0.52
Date Posted: Sat Jul/03/10 at 12:18 pm

hunter_raine
Posts: 186
Joined: 03-Jun-10


Date Posted: Sat Jul/03/10 at 12:59pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

Wouldn't the first ability trigger as well.
Date Posted: Sat Jul/03/10 at 1:37pm

Wolfclan14
Posts: 461
Joined: 23-Jan-10

Yup, still got to skip a turn.
Date Posted: Sat Jul/03/10 at 1:39pm

Pal-of-Lim-Dul
Posts: 1148
Joined: 24-May-10

I believe the phasing rules have changed since we were young and phased everything with "into and out of" abilities.

Now, when something phases out, it doesn't leave play, it just ceases to exist but is still on the battlefield. When it phases in, it exists again, but since it never left the battlefield, abilities don't activate.
Date Posted: Sat Jul/03/10 at 2:23pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

I would imagine Phasing removing the card from the game.
Date Posted: Sat Jul/03/10 at 2:40pm

psyche
Posts: 1250
Joined: 31-Aug-09

http://www.ebbemunk.dk/magic/index.html
702.23d


The phasing event doesn't actually cause a permanent to change zones or control, even though it's treated as though it's not on the battlefield and not under its controller's control while it's phased out. Zone-change triggers don't trigger when a permanent phases in or out. Counters remain on a permanent while it's phased out. Effects that check a phased-in permanent's history won't treat the phasing event as having caused the permanent to leave or enter the battlefield or its controller's control.
Date Posted: Sat Jul/03/10 at 2:53pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

Either way, I'm right.
Date Posted: Sat Jul/03/10 at 3:01pm

ParadoxRemix
Posts: 389
Joined: 22-Feb-10

You're right in assuming this combo doesn't work. Phasing hasn't worked on ETB or LTB effects in a long time. People abused it too much apparently.

The only way to use Wormfang Manta the way you're looking to is to counter it's ETB effect with something like Stifle, and even though you won't get multiple uses from it unless you've got Isochron Scepters handy. On top of that, you would need a recurring source which could actually remove the Manta from play. I can think of a few ways to do this, but I'm not gonna get into it because I think this one is more trouble than it's worth.
Date Posted: Sat Jul/03/10 at 3:12pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

I have to agree. Some way to untap Isochron Scepter that has Stifle on it, while repeatedly removing it and bringing it back is too much for too little.
Date Posted: Sat Jul/03/10 at 3:14pm

ParadoxRemix
Posts: 389
Joined: 22-Feb-10

Well, if you're taking inifinite turns, you wouldn't have to untap the Scepter, it would untap by itself each turn, but that's provided you have another way make the Manta leave the battlefield and return each time you take a turn.
Date Posted: Sat Jul/03/10 at 3:42pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

I made a combo. Hopefully, it works.
Date Posted: Sun Jul/04/10 at 9:14pm

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

So that's phasing... that is why Auras are not removed...
Date Posted: Mon Aug/09/10 at 8:03pm

hunter_raine
Posts: 186
Joined: 03-Jun-10

a good friend of mine thought of this combo ages ago, and has used it in tournaments, and on mtgo: if it works there, i would only guess it work with cardboard, but then again, i may not know what im talking about, i only own approx. 30,000 cards. and have about 40 decks, really good decks including a Nasty Blue Black discard deck, I call "No Cads For You"
Date Posted: Mon Aug/09/10 at 8:30pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

You counted how many cards you have???
Date Posted: Mon Aug/09/10 at 8:31pm

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

30,000... yay!
Date Posted: Mon Aug/09/10 at 8:36pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

How long would that take?
Date Posted: Mon Aug/09/10 at 10:57pm

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

Around 3 hours maybe... without any rest...
Date Posted: Tue Aug/10/10 at 4:47pm

hunter_raine
Posts: 186
Joined: 03-Jun-10

approx. value, judging by the capacity of the boxes i use, i can say that i have roughly 30,000 cards give or take 1000
Date Posted: Tue Aug/10/10 at 5:04pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

Ah. (>'-')>
Date Posted: Tue Aug/10/10 at 5:05pm

ParadoxRemix
Posts: 389
Joined: 22-Feb-10

Too bad it didn't make you a better player. Phasing doesn't work with ETB or LTB effects. It hasn't in a long time. I'm not even sure it did originally.
Date Posted: Tue Aug/10/10 at 5:08pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

Probably was a confusing topic at first.
Date Posted: Wed Aug/11/10 at 7:59pm

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

Yup... i'm still confused to this day...
Date Posted: Thu Aug/19/10 at 6:02pm

hunter_raine
Posts: 186
Joined: 03-Jun-10

same here, as i mentioned, its a friends combo, and it works on mtgo: he uses it all the time. same with the turn 0 kill deck all over the web
Date Posted: Thu Aug/19/10 at 6:23pm

ParadoxRemix
Posts: 389
Joined: 22-Feb-10

702.23d The phasing event doesn't actually cause a permanent to change zones or control, even though it's treated as though it's not on the battlefield and not under its controller's control while it's phased out. Zone-change triggers don't trigger when a permanent phases in or out. Counters remain on a permanent while it's phased out. Effects that check a phased-in permanent's history won't treat the phasing event as having caused the permanent to leave or enter the battlefield or its controller's control.

If you find it confusing, read up on it in the comprehensive rules. It'll make you a better player, and you may even stop posting combos that don't work.

PS - MTGO uses the same comprehensive rules that the real life cardboard version of Magic uses, so this doesn't work on there either.
Date Posted: Thu Aug/19/10 at 6:24pm

ParadoxRemix
Posts: 389
Joined: 22-Feb-10

Phasing

702.23a Phasing is a static ability that modifies the rules of the untap step. During each player's untap step, before the active player untaps his or her permanents, all phased-in permanents with phasing that player controls "phase out." Simultaneously, all phased-out permanents that had phased out under that player's control "phase in."

702.23b If a permanent phases out, its status changes to "phased out." Except for rules and effects that specifically mention phased-out permanents, a phased-out permanent is treated as though it does not exist. It can't affect or be affected by anything else in the game.
Example: You control three creatures, one of which is phased out. You cast a spell that says "Draw a card for each creature you control." You draw two cards.
Example: You control a phased-out creature. You cast Wrath of God, which says "Destroy all creatures. They can't be regenerated." The phased-out creature is not destroyed.

702.23c If a permanent phases in, its status changes to "phased in." The game once again treats it as though it exists.

702.23d The phasing event doesn't actually cause a permanent to change zones or control, even though it's treated as though it's not on the battlefield and not under its controller's control while it's phased out. Zone-change triggers don't trigger when a permanent phases in or out. Counters remain on a permanent while it's phased out. Effects that check a phased-in permanent's history won't treat the phasing event as having caused the permanent to leave or enter the battlefield or its controller's control.

702.23e Continuous effects that affect a phased-out permanent may expire while that permanent is phased out. If so, they will no longer affect that permanent once it's phased in. In particular, effects with "for as long as" durations that track that permanent (see rule 611.2b) end when that permanent phases out because they can no longer see it.

702.23f When a permanent phases out, any Auras, Equipment, or Fortifications attached to that permanent phase out at the same time. This alternate way of phasing out is known as phasing out "indirectly." An Aura, Equipment, or Fortification that phased out indirectly won't phase in by itself, but instead phases in along with the permanent it's attached to.

702.23g If an object would simultaneously phase out directly and indirectly, it just phases out indirectly.

702.23h An Aura, Equipment, or Fortification that phased out directly will phase in attached to the object or player it was attached to when it phased out, if that object is still in the same zone or that player is still in the game. If not, that Aura, Equipment, or Fortification phases in unattached. State-based actions apply as appropriate. (See rules 704.5n and 704.5p.)

702.23i Phased-out permanents owned by a player who leaves the game also leave the game. This doesn't trigger zone-change triggers. See rule 800.4.

702.23j Phased-out tokens cease to exist as a state-based action. See rule 704.5d.

702.23k If an effect causes a player to skip his or her untap step, the phasing event simply doesn't occur that turn.

702.23m Multiple instances of phasing on the same permanent are redundant.
Date Posted: Thu Aug/19/10 at 7:18pm

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

Nice Read! and wall of text containing rules... but that clears it...
Date Posted: Thu Aug/19/10 at 7:35pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

Paradox, stop dissing Hunter.
Date Posted: Thu Aug/19/10 at 7:37pm

ParadoxRemix
Posts: 389
Joined: 22-Feb-10

Not dissing anyone. He's trying to prove an invalid point, and is using false information to do so. MTG is a confusing enough game without people going around telling other people that certain things work when they actually dont work at all.
Date Posted: Thu Aug/19/10 at 7:41pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

"Too bad it didn't make you a better player." "It'll make you a better player, and you may even stop posting combos that don't work."

Sounds worse than what I said that annoyed him.
Date Posted: Thu Aug/19/10 at 7:48pm

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

Paradox is just correcting him... There's a big difference between dissing and correcting an error...
Date Posted: Thu Aug/19/10 at 7:51pm

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

He's just telling hunter that if he understand the rules then he might even need the correction that paradox is posting...
Date Posted: Fri Aug/20/10 at 6:06am

ParadoxRemix
Posts: 389
Joined: 22-Feb-10

If I wanted to diss him, I would do it blatantly. He reminds me of a guy I play with on a regular basis. He has good ideas for combos, unfortunately alot of the time the literally thousands of MTG rules don't back him up. His Radiate/Hymn of Rebirth combo for example would be a great idea if it actually worked, since I think the only other card in Magic that can accomplish that is Lliliana Vess.
Date Posted: Fri Aug/20/10 at 8:02pm

hunter_raine
Posts: 186
Joined: 03-Jun-10

ok, first we need to congratulate tubine for turning over a new leaf, Welcome turbine,

secondly, as i already said i really don't think too much before posting a combo, does not make me a lousy player, i win more than i lose, have some really nasty decks.

its too bad that dont work, imagine

wrath of god
hymn of rebirth
radiate

id say a nice game of  emperor, and you would win
Date Posted: Sat Aug/21/10 at 11:45am

hunter_raine
Posts: 186
Joined: 03-Jun-10

the take an extra turn goes on top of the stack, it takes effect before the lose a turn. this came from the friend, he said it came from inquest magazine


[Edited by hunter_raine on 21/Aug/10 at 11:53AM]
Date Posted: Sat Aug/21/10 at 12:10pm

psyche
Posts: 1250
Joined: 31-Aug-09

The stack of extra turn doesn't matter in this case. At the end of you turn, when the 2 are checked both trigger. You take an extra turn, but before that turn starts you skip it. For this phasing doesn't work, and the extra turn doesn't work. You can, and i have, make a combo that takes advantage of the skipped extra turn to defuse a other extra turn. Final fortune. If you take a extra turn form final fortune, but skip it due to the manta, then take an extra turn form the manta, then you get an extra turn without the risk of losing the game. It is a way of not needing to play angles grace or having a platinum angel.
Date Posted: Sat Aug/21/10 at 1:02pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

I apologize to Paradox, from reading what topic he later made.



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