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Children of Enduring Death

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Enduring RenewalEnlarge

Enduring Renewal

{2}{W}{W}

Enchantment

Time Spiral Timeshifted

Read rules for Enduring Renewal
Play with your hand revealed. If you would draw a card, reveal the top card of your library instead. If it's a creature card, put it into your graveyard. Otherwise, draw a card. Whenever a creature is put into your graveyard from the battlefield, return it to your hand.

Full card details & printings ›

DeathrenderEnlarge

Deathrender

{4}

Artifact — Equipment

Lorwyn

Read rules for Deathrender
Equipped creature gets +2/+2. Whenever equipped creature dies, you may put a creature card from your hand onto the battlefield and attach this Equipment to it. Equip {2}

Full card details & printings ›

Date Posted: Sat Jun/05/10 at 3:29 pm

ParadoxRemix
Posts: 389
Joined: 22-Feb-10

Identical to the Fanatic/Renewal/Render combo, except this one gives infinite life, provided you have lost at least 1 life the turn you do it.
Date Posted: Sat Jun/05/10 at 5:47pm

Ebbe
Posts: 34
Joined: 12-Aug-09

I don't know - but I'm not sure that Children of Korlis is in your hand - yet - when the Deathrender effect kicks in.



Since Enduring Renewal and Deathrender are both your triggered effects, you choose in what order they go on the stack.
Of course, you want Enduring Renewal to resolve first.

But my question is:
Do you have to choose the creature when Deathrender triggers, or when it resolves?
(If you choose when it triggers, Children of Korlis is not in your hand.
If you choose when it resolves, Children of Korlis is in your hand.)

Had Deathrender said "Target creature", the combo for sure wouldn't work, but since it says "a creature" I'm unsure of the rulings.

Anyone?
Date Posted: Sat Jun/05/10 at 5:55pm

ParadoxRemix
Posts: 389
Joined: 22-Feb-10

It says neither of those things. It says 'a creature card'. The game never refers to a card out of play as a permanent type, always as a card. Deathrender couldn't say 'target creature' because permanents only exist on the battlefield, elsewhere they're cards.

As for the ability itself, everything before the comma is the trigger, and everything after the comma is the ability. There's no choice or target involved, so there's no reason for anything to happen during the trigger except the ability being put on the stack.

It's really a very simple combo, and it works quite well.
Date Posted: Sun Jun/06/10 at 9:57am

psyche
Posts: 1250
Joined: 31-Aug-09

I must applaud you. While not as strong as my darien, king of kjeldor and spirit warden combo, this one is far less mana cost to play, and less vulnerable. Your combo is solid, and quick to play. Very good job.
Date Posted: Sun Jun/06/10 at 7:24pm

Ebbe
Posts: 34
Joined: 12-Aug-09

You are of course absolutely right about the card-thing, how silly of me.

But there is still the issue of timing. Both cards trigger on the same thing:
"Whenever a/equipped creature is put into your/a graveyard from play".

So if Deathrender resolves before Enduring Renewal, Children of Korlis won't be in your hand.

But after you pointed out the card-thingie, I believe that the combo will work.
(Since you as the active player get to choose which triggered ability goes first to the stack.)
Date Posted: Tue Jun/08/10 at 5:24am

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

You can always have 2 of that "Child of something" card...
Add channel FTW!
Date Posted: Tue Jun/08/10 at 7:08am

ParadoxRemix
Posts: 389
Joined: 22-Feb-10

I thought of Channel, but at only 1 per deck it's not the most reliable card for the combo. I actually had a really hard time finding a white card that would let me pay life whenever I felt like it. The most effective one I could find was Righteous Aura.
Date Posted: Tue Jun/08/10 at 7:41am

Zark-the-Damned
Posts: 523
Joined: 24-Feb-10

Ebbe - since you control both triggers, you choose which order to stack them. So you can choose to make Enduring Renewal first, putting the creature back in hand for the Deathrender's ability.

This combo would also work with any other creature with a sacrifice effect :)
Date Posted: Tue Jun/08/10 at 7:47am

lin sivvi
Posts: 1608
Joined: 14-Jan-10