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Title: Horde Mode (Yes I made another gears of war reference).

Date Posted: Thu Sep/27/12 at 1:00pm

DyingJester
Posts: 1771
Joined: 16-Dec-08

Thanks to someone mentioning horde magic (Boyachi I think?) I did a little research into what exactly horde magic was...and it seemed...epic as hell!  Here's a rules breakdown (Modified by me slightly from serious fun).

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/sf/183



In Brief: Horde Magic is a multiplayer variant where all players work together as "Survivors" to defeat an opposing "Horde" deck.


Rules Rundown: There's a lot going on in Horde Magic. We'll break it down into Game Play, Player, and Horde rules.


Game Play Rules:


  • The objective is for the allied team to survive, and eliminate, the Horde. Survivors win when the Horde deck has no cards remaining in its library, no cards in hand, and controls no creatures.
  • If the Survivors deal damage to the Horde, that number of cards are put from the top of the Horde's deck into its graveyard.


Player Rules:


  • Up to four players total, and each player brings his or her own deck.
  • All players share their turns, a la Two-Headed Giant, and contribute 20 life to the starting total (one player is 20, four players is 80).
  • The Survivors takes the first three turns, then alternate with the Horde.


Horde Rules:



  • The Horde is a hundred-card deck. (Take away a
    random twenty-five cards for each Survivor less than four on the team;
    three players face seventy-five cards, two players face fifty.)
  • The Horde is both token cards as well as
    regular Magic cards; the standard is fifty-five 2/2 creature tokens, five
    5/5 creature tokens, and forty spells that fit the theme of your horde. (I.E. Elf Horde, Wizard horde, tribal horde, ect...)
  • The Horde's turns start by revealing the top
    card of the library. If it's a creature token, it is set aside. This
    process repeats until a nontoken spell is revealed. Then, all of the
    creature tokens are cast (as a creature spell that costs ). Finally, the revealed spell is cast.
  • The Horde will only cast spells once per turn,
    at the start of the turn. (Anything that is returned to the Horde's
    hand remains there until the next turn, when it is then cast after the
    revealed spell for that turn.)
  • The horde deck has any amount of mana needed
    and will always pay additional costs required (such as from Sphere of
    Resistance; Propaganda; and Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs).
  • All creatures the Horde controls have haste and must attack each turn if able.
  • If there is a choice presented for the Horde, such as when a Survivor casts Fact or Fiction, the choice is made randomly.
  • Tokens put into the graveyard, returned to the Horde's hand, or exiled, disappear from the game as per normal token rules.


So with this article as a guideline...I built my own horde build via the massive stockpile of phyrexians I own. So here is my horde build.


40 Myr Tokens (Phyrexian Artwork)
10 Golem Tokens (Phyrexian Artwork)
4 Phyrexian Rebirth
4 Indestructibility
4 Nested Ghoul
4 Pierce Strider
4 Myr Sire
4 Hideous Visage
1 Angel of Despair
1 Elesh Norn
2 Bonehorde
4 Safe Passage

4 Skin Render
3 Planar Cleansing
1 Batterskull


And this is my build...advice/suggestions would be appreciated (Mostly because outside of that article I have no f@#king idea what I'm doing).






Date Posted: Thu Sep/27/12 at 11:14pm

Boyachi
Posts: 1553
Joined: 02-Nov-11

I would like to preface my post by saying that you have to build for your group. In comparison to my deck, yours is looking rather tame. This depends entirely on the challenge you  and your comrades desire.

Don't get me wrong, Phyrexian Rebirth is a good card, but you have too many of them in your deck. This is going to help your team out more than hurt it. Cut it down to two tops. If you want four cards of board-wrecking turmoil, use Carnifex Demon. As soon as it hits play, the horde must activate the ability. Yes this does often hurt it too, but it keeps the gameplay going. It can help or hinder depending on its circumstances.

Indestructibility needs to go. The horde should almost never target with only one exception: abilities that will end up targeting an entire side. Perfect examples of these are Fang Sulkin (works out to be "all black creatures the horde controls gains wither) or Onyx Mage(all the horde's creatures gain deathtouch).

Good choice with Nested Ghoul

Pierce Strider should probably go. Not because of the targeting (all players share life) but because of the life drain. Unless you are playing counterspells or Torpor Orb, this will be the lame game ender that no one could stop.

Myr Sire is too tame.

Again, Hideous Visage targets, thus take it out.

Angel of Despair targets, out it goes.

Elesh Norn! Good choice!

Bonehoard is another great choice. Even with random targeting, this makes sense in the deck as it is bothersome but not unstoppable. I like to make tokens stay in the graveyard and count as creatures, which means you either shatter this bad boy, or you gotta chump block it (or arrest it).

Safe Passage has me on the fence. I get that it only happens on the horde's turn and I see the dread it instills, but the flavor is slightly off. It is a fresh idea that I have not seen yet and I think I'll through it into my own and see how I it does in my stack.

Skinrender. Targets. Randomly. Not good. Swap with that demon I mentioned earlier.

I'd say you have one too many Planar Cleansings. Remove one. Also throw in some creatures that regenerate the way Drudge Skeletons do. Clay Statues perhaps would fit your theme.

Batterskull needs errata. You must disable the return to hand ability, otherwise it will just instantly return to the hand. House rules if you will.

I'm a sadistic person when it comes to horde. I personally think Eldrazi Monument is a touch too much but other enchantments that give blanket abilities (true conviction, knighthood etc) are good twists but I really REALLY love Gravepact.
Bottomless Pit is a card that no one wants, but if those blanket abilities seem too powerful, BP will spice up the game just enough. Each player discarding a card during their upkeep.

Lhurgoyf and Revanant aren't too bad to add and I would love to see Thromok the Insatiable. (might want to cancel haste for the creatures if adding too many of these guys but do add a Crimson Mage to balance it out, trust me it does make sense).

Moan of the Unhallowed is a fun card if only because of it generating tokens even if it ends up in the graveyard.

I'll post more suggestions when I have access of my pile, I'm running on four energy drinks.
Date Posted: Thu Sep/27/12 at 11:55pm

Boyachi
Posts: 1553
Joined: 02-Nov-11

As you noticed I modify the rules for horde tokens leaving the battlefield, as well as cancelling the haste rule but giving haste options. That's just what I have found works for me.

What I do want to address is things that don't work well:
Horde Targeting. The horde should never have a Terror-esque card and heaven forbid it using something like Shock of Desert Twister. Cards like Innocent Blood or Simplify are just as bad. Just try to avoid it. A random number generator is greatly recommended if you MUST assign targets.
Planeswalkers: Yes, you can use planeswalkers, but you have to have a system that is easy to use. If there is one planeswalker in play, flip a coin to see whether the horde(as a whole) attacks the planeswalker or the players. If two or more, it is as simple as assigning a number to the player group and a number to each planeswalker and choosing only one of those numbers. The Horde attacks that number.
Powerful cards: Running pauper against my horde deck will almost automatically result in failure. That being said, if you are going to use a deck that hinges around making sure no one can attack by turn three will drain the fun from the game. Just as the horde helps you evolve your decks, you MUST have the horde adapt to be able to deal with things that would shut it down.For example: Kismet & Statis means that the horde must have enchantment destruction. Steel Hellkite will wipe out tokens, end of story, but making players sacrifice creatures at random during their upkeeps (Sheoldred, Rise from the Grave, etc.) deals with bothersome creatures.

One-Eyed Scarecrow is slightly off flavor, but it is a slight challenge for flyers. Since it has defender, it still cannot attack, but since it is part of the horde, it cannot block either. Taking the ability to kill it with traditional combat damage means that if it is annoying, you have to use a kill spell for it...

 

Lastly, there are many powerful tokens out there. Here are how I play some of my favorites:
7/1 Trample Haste Red Elementals=If haste is not granted to the whole horde, these guys are vicious.
*/* Red elementals= I make their power and toughness equal to the number of creatures in play.
*/* Green Oozes= P/T The number of Lands in play.
*/* Horror= Equal to the number of cards in all hands. This guy is hard to find.
20/20 Indestructible Flying Marit Lage= I'm running a proxy of ONE of these in my deck. Not only did I not feel like paying seven dollars for a card I can't use in tournaments but I wasn't sure if it had a typical card backing. Since tokens typically have an advertisement on their backs, it is very easy to skip to the stopper card. Nothing else needs to come up after Marit Lage enters the battlefield, so I repurposed a land card with black and red sharpie. Use this monster only if playing hardcore and you are sure that you have a way to deal with it (Swords to plowshares, Dark Impostor, Oblivion Ring, Fiend Hunter).

One that note, if ever the Horde's Library is cleared, and there are only indestructible creatures under its control, I call the game in the survivors' favor (mostly because every time I've gotten to that point we can just hold the creatures off infinitely until we get down to the card that will remove them from play).

Well I think that is more than enough! Happy hording! Hope I didn't Dreadbore you too much with these long posts!
Date Posted: Thu Sep/27/12 at 11:59pm

DyingJester
Posts: 1771
Joined: 16-Dec-08

Hideous Visage doesn't target... o<(0_0)>o other than that spot on advice...
Date Posted: Fri Sep/28/12 at 12:04am

Kethiju
Posts: 225
Joined: 24-Jul-12

I want to play a game of Super Villian. Can't find enough people with Scheme cards though. Everyone has Arch-Enemy rules working for them. Just like in arch-enemy, during each of the arch-enemy's turns, new scheme. With everyone doing that every turn, the game will get very chaotic very quickly.
Date Posted: Fri Sep/28/12 at 6:14am

Boyachi
Posts: 1553
Joined: 02-Nov-11

Oh, that Hideous Visage. I was thinking of Gruesome Deformity. My apologies.
In your current build, I'd say it is fine. This card (due to my token balance) would typically kill the survivors in my build.

One thing that I would like to stress to everyone. If a horde deck is too hard, often times all you have to do is take away tokens. The number of tokens far out reaches the number of stopper cards (especially in my build). Sure, having a swarm of creatures you can only block with Artifacts can often be an issue, but there is a difference between it being four 3/3s and it being twelve 1/1s. Yes I know the damage would be the same, but for blocking and defensive targeting, those twelve myrs are going to be more bothersome even the next turn than the four golems.

Lastly, I recommend Pentavus tokens(flying 1/1 artifact) for your deck, TheJesterDivine. They seem more numerous than thopter tokens and a three to six of them would add more flavor to your deck.
Date Posted: Fri Oct/05/12 at 11:13pm

Boyachi
Posts: 1553
Joined: 02-Nov-11

Got to my box! Here it goes:

0/0 Germ tokens: Only use these if you are using things to boost power and toughness (lieges, Elesh Norn, etc) or Grave Pact(deadly).

0/1 tokens: These are good for giving breaks in the action.

1/1s: I have a huge diverse pile of different 1/1s. They go into most anything and help keep balance to the stack, giving you numbers but without much of the challenge.

Flying 1/1s: Awesome for variation.

1/1 infect insects: Hailing from New Phyrexia, these are good in small numbers, overdone it is over way too quickly.

1/2 Reach spiders: Since the horde does not block, the only perk is that it can take a small hit and survive.

1/1 Deathtouch Wolves: Rare tokens from innistrad, a few of them aren't bad.

1/1 lifelink vampires: I tend to try to stay away from lifelink as the best way to deal with extra life is to make it an extra damage barrier.

2/2s: Your zombies, and other stuff. Not bad.

1/1 regenerating skeletons: Infinite mana means infinite regenerating. A big enough ability to be annoying with a little enough power to be managable.

2/2 oozes: These guys break down into two 1/1s = fun to have.

3/3s: your golems, beasts and centaurs. Don't overload with these guys as they can quickly get out of hand if they are the only tokens.

2/2 vigilant knights: no point, unless playing against Statis decks, which shouldn't matter anyway because good Statis decks run Frozen Aether.

3/3 flying birds: I picked up more of these than regular 3/3s. I immediately found out that was a bad idea.

4/4 and 5/5 fliers: good if sprinkled. If you use a lot, please reference the line above.

4/4 hasty giants: Since I run over two hundred tokens in my deck (when there are at least four people) typically give haste only to creatures that have it on their cards, it mixes things up.

7/1 trample haste elementals: There guys are great. I typically run as many of these as I run 2/2s. These demand strategy.

5/5 and 6/6s: As long as you don't overload them, they aren't as threatening as they would seem.

*/* creatures: So far, I have three creature types for these:
Elementals: I make *s equal to the number of creatures in play.
Oozes:I make the *s equal to the number of lands in play.
Horrors: I make the *s equal to the cards in everyone's hands.

1/1 Flying Devour 2 Dragon: A big flier that eats all of the horde's tokens can be a great test for beginners, making sure that there are enough removal cards in decks...and/or flying blockers.

There are 8/8 vigilant elementals. I'm currently thinking they are overkill, but mainly I'm keeping them out because I am using them for my RtR deck (Go Selesnya!).
Date Posted: Fri Oct/05/12 at 11:34pm

Boyachi
Posts: 1553
Joined: 02-Nov-11

Now for the Stopper cards:

3/1 elemental shamans: for sighs of relief. Thay are technically tokens but have regular card backings.

Crimson Mage: gives the horde haste. I prefer him over Fervor as he is easier to take down. Skulkins are good for this too. Harmattan Efreet can give them all flying, stuff like that.

Token generating creatures: Nested Ghoul is a good example.

Buffers: Lieges from Eventide, Elesh Norn, Ascendant Evincar (if you are only using black tokens).

Kruin Striker: Very scary, just think about it.

Lhurgoyf: When you make the tokens stay in the graveyard, Boneyard Wurm, Revenant, and Bonehoard are things to focus on removing.

Carnifex Demon: Is almost garunteed to screw over one side, but never garuntees whether it will be the survivors or the horde that feel the most of its wrath.

Eldrazis: Annihilator makes a definite focus for the team.

Death's-head Buzzard: Sometimes little guys that penalize the survivors for killing  all the weenies. Zombie Boa is a little big but falls under that category. Retaliator Griffin is the opposite of this idea.

One-Eyed Scarecrow: Gives the horde some defense.

Moan of the Unhallowed: Elephant Ambush and others with flashback give the horde a trick to use even if the damage mills a bunch.

There are many others, but I figured I'd cover the general ideas.