Skip to content
MTGCombos
MenuClose

Share your combos and save your decks.

Join for freeLog in
Magic The Gathering Combos
Search Cards & Combos:

Home     Submit A Combo     Deck Builder     Forums     Picture Guess     Help

You are not logged in [click to login] - [Join For Free!]  





Title: Negitive mana
Date Posted: Fri Mar/16/12 at 9:05am

lin sivvi
Posts: 1608
Joined: 14-Jan-10

so I stumbled across something.

By combining these two, you could bring you life into the negatives. This would mean that Volcano Hellion's echo cost would be negative.

My assumption would be that negative mana counts as zero mana, but I thought that about abyssal presecutor too.
Date Posted: Fri Mar/16/12 at 2:59pm

PinkiePie
Posts: 157
Joined: 10-Sep-11

The echo cost will be zero because it's unpayable! The hellions ability can follow your life total at any number, but when you have to pay echo, you cant pay negative mana! You just pay 0!
Date Posted: Fri Mar/16/12 at 3:08pm

theotherguy
Posts: 346
Joined: 04-Feb-11

what are the cards? my computer's not loading the pictures...I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON
Date Posted: Fri Mar/16/12 at 3:37pm

PinkiePie
Posts: 157
Joined: 10-Sep-11

Platinum Angel and Volcano Hellion!
Date Posted: Sun Mar/18/12 at 10:04am

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

I'm not sure about the rulings, but I am fairly sure that you would just not pay the cost. Negative mana just doesn't sound right. . .
Date Posted: Sun Mar/18/12 at 10:55am

PinkiePie
Posts: 157
Joined: 10-Sep-11

Well, you would, it just costs 0! You could still choose to not pay the echo!
Date Posted: Tue Mar/20/12 at 10:03am

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

Does negative life affect cards like Death's Shadow?
Date Posted: Tue Mar/20/12 at 10:18am

SirZapdos
Posts: 329
Joined: 21-Jun-11

Yes it does. Check the official rulings on Gatherer.
Date Posted: Thu Mar/22/12 at 2:22pm

Squillis
Posts: 424
Joined: 20-Nov-08

Directly from the comprehensive rules:

107.1b Most of the time, the _Magic_ game uses only positive numbers and zero. You can't choose a negative number, deal negative damage, gain negative life, and so on. However, it's possible for a game value, such as a creature's power, to be less than zero. If a calculation or comparison needs to use a negative value, it does so. If a calculation that would determine the result of an effect yields a negative number, zero is used instead, unless that effect sets a player's life total to a specific value, doubles a player's life total, sets a creature's power or toughness to a specific value, or otherwise modifies a creature's power or toughness.
Example: If a 3/4 creature gets -5/-0, it's a -2/4 creature. It assigns 0 damage in combat. Its total power and toughness is 2. You'd have to give it +3/+0 to raise its power to 1.
Example: Viridian Joiner is a 1/2 creature with the ability "{T}: Add to your mana pool an amount of {G} equal to Viridian Joiner's power." An effect gives it -2/-0, then its ability is activated. The ability adds no mana to your mana pool.

That last part should pretty well identify that you can't add negative mana to the pool.  And the part before it that zero will be used instead of a negative number for X
Date Posted: Thu Mar/22/12 at 3:40pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

Does that mean that Gatherer contradicts the comprehensive rules?

Gatherer: "3/1/2010 If your life total is less than 0 and an effect (such as the one from an opponent's Abyssal Persecutor) is keeping you from losing the game, Death's Shadow's ability will actually increase its power and toughness. For example, if your life total is -2, Death's Shadow gets +2/+2."

Comprehensive rules: "If a calculation that would determine the result of an effect yields a negative number, zero is used instead"
Date Posted: Thu Mar/22/12 at 3:48pm

Starship
Posts: 549
Joined: 13-Dec-11

that's really stupid, the comprehensive rules should always be correct. the only thing that trumps game rules is card text.
Date Posted: Thu Mar/22/12 at 5:08pm

theotherguy
Posts: 346
Joined: 04-Feb-11

What about Lich's Tomb?

"You don't lose the game for having 0 or less life"

Gatherer doesn't have any rulings here, and according to Comp Rules logic, you would stop sacrificing permanents at 0 life, because your life would be a negative, which is treated as 0, so you don't actually lose any life. Or do I have the logic totally wrong?


[Edited by theotherguy on 22/Mar/12 at 5:09PM]
Date Posted: Thu Mar/22/12 at 5:19pm

gericault5
Posts: 2788
Joined: 13-Oct-09

your focusing on the wrong line, the ones you are interested in are...

Most of the time, the _Magic_ game uses only positive numbers and zero. You can't choose a negative number, deal negative damage, gain negative life, and so on. However, it's possible for a game value, such as a creature's power, to be less than zero. If a calculation or comparison needs to use a negative value, it does so.

The highlighted parts allow you to go into negative life as it is a game value.

the line in question... "If a calculation that would determine the result of an effect yields a negative number, zero is used instead" applies to circumstances like the joiner with -2 life.  Another more relevant example is a creature with negative power can't deal negative damage so 0 is used
Date Posted: Thu Mar/22/12 at 6:38pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

In the case that the Gatherer rules contradicted the comprehensive rules, which would trump though?