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Title: This have changed . . . too much
Date Posted: Thu Dec/01/11 at 12:02am

lin sivvi
Posts: 1608
Joined: 14-Jan-10

One thing that annoys me is that toughest creatures went like this:

Blue (start of the MtG)

Green (Oddessy)

Rainbow? (Conflux(kinda))

Everyone (fucking eldrazi)



Originally:

Blue: was supposed to have good control, and the most powerful creatures, but very bad cost rate.

White: was supposed to have very cost effective low power creatures, and self-preservation

Green: was supposed to have very cost effective creatures and powerful buff

Red: was supposed to have the most verseatile spell casting, but other than direct damage tended to be cost ineffective

Black: was supposed to have cheap spells with special drawbacks and a good creature control, but very lacking elsewhere.



The shear power of blue's counterspelling made it a bit too good in early magic, as blue did tend to lack a weakness



Artifacts started out very weak because they made sure that artifacts
didn't break the above constraints, the only power was the Urza lands.



note: these are generalities, there were plenty of exception and many are open to opinion.

Also, significant tribes have been getting rather stupid (okay, Instared did impress me).  For instance kithkin. . . the new dwarves . . . eldrazi . . . and a few others I can't think of right now.
Date Posted: Sat Dec/10/11 at 12:27am

Fenrirr
Posts: 4
Joined: 09-Dec-11

I have been noticing this in M:TG, where I look at older spells and I feel like it can't stand toe-to-toe with Modern M:TG (X to M12)

Lets take Craw Wurm, a big creature in the older editions -  Thats not too bad for its costs. a 6/4 for 6 mana was pretty good back then

Now look at the Ulamog, a big honking 10/10 indestructible, annihilator 4 and destroy target permanent? For 11 colorless?

Then you think: "Oh but Ulamog is 11 that takes forever!" - Wrong, back then Mana-ramp wasn't a major game plan - look to modern MTG and you get the really fast Eldrazi spawn or you go Ancient Depths with incredible manaramp.

 

TL;dr Cards are getting more over-powered, in 10 years Eldrazi cards will look like little babies compared to the "40/40, un-exilable, indestructable, annihilator 20, destroy 15 permanents when it attacks or comes into play, when it comes into play place down 40 Birds Of Paradise, Pro-All colors"

 

TL;dr the TL;dr Prepare for more op sets

 

 

EDIT: I also felt that Innistrad felt to isolated from the last Blocks (Zendikar and Mirrodin). Innistrad feels like it couldn't even stand-up to any of the Zendikar big-tuffie's or the Mirrodin Phyrexian Praetors. With Innistrad it feels like Innistrad decks only good against Innistrad decks. Only vampires and some all human decks get significant boosts from Innistrad

Looks at Avacyn Priest - Tap one colorless, tap one target non-human creature

Then compare with the slightly older Gideons Lawkeeper, much more effective (albiet less flexible)

TL;Dr Innistrad cards are basically supplements to other decks, mostly boost to Vampires


[Edited by Fenrirr on 10/Dec/11 at 12:31AM]
Date Posted: Sat Dec/10/11 at 10:55am

darthnefas
Posts: 1081
Joined: 04-Apr-11

Wait, did you just say that no mana ramp back in the day? How much are Black Lotus now?

Back in the beginning I could pop out a fastbond, ancestral recal, a mox or two, bust a Time Twister or Wheel of Fortune, Time Walk, and next turn pop out Emerakul like it was a weeny deck, but why do that when I could just dole out 20 points of damage in general with a bloodlusted, berzerked, ball lightning?

Cards today aren't as powerful as their predecessors. Then instead of making more expensive versions they made expensive versions that had added abilities like buyback. The reality is they aren't making too many new cards, just spin offs of old cards, which is why I like the theme thing.

Regardless, the game has remained fun over time and that's the real point. Can the game be competitive. That was a tough question back when Revised, the Dark, and Fallen Empires came out because we were still using the most powerful cards and then they started banning and restricting stuff and doing errata on cards and sure thing, they fixed the brokeness of it all and people had to make different decks in competitive play.

I also like that colors have evolved over time. Letting red draw cards, but more expensively makes it all balance out and makes it fun. New card ideas. New card ideas!

I think there will also be a cap to how much power cards can make. They can't keep making Time Walk, to Time Warp, to the one that gives you two additional turns. It has to end at some point.
Date Posted: Sat Dec/10/11 at 11:55am

lin sivvi
Posts: 1608
Joined: 14-Jan-10

Yes, the power nine were powerful . . .

Also, you say that the colors have evolved, but they more or less just mixed, getting rid of much of the distinction between colors.  What bothered me the most was the planar chaos set where they just changed the color and name of old cards.
Date Posted: Sat Dec/10/11 at 12:06pm

PinkiePie
Posts: 157
Joined: 10-Sep-11

That was the entire point of the set...! To shift the planes of cards! LOVE THAT MANA TITHE!
Date Posted: Sat Dec/10/11 at 12:18pm

rav514
Posts: 329
Joined: 02-Dec-10

FENRIRR
EDIT: I also felt that Innistrad felt to isolated from the last Blocks (Zendikar and Mirrodin). Innistrad feels like it couldn't even stand-up to any of the Zendikar big-tuffie's or the Mirrodin Phyrexian Praetors. With Innistrad it feels like Innistrad decks only good against Innistrad decks. Only vampires and some all human decks get significant boosts from Innistrad


Reply = I think that was intentional. My buddy and I were having this conversation a while back and he was complaining that inistrad was weaker than the last several sets. I disagreed partly. I think it's weaker than zendakar. I don't think that it is weaker than what ever the first set of mirrodin was called. Zendakar was kinda off the hook. I think (IMO) that magic kinda realized that and is trying to tone it back a little and create more playability than huge beat sticks. At least i hope so.


[Edited by on 10/Dec/11 at 1:40PM]
Date Posted: Sat Dec/10/11 at 4:04pm

Fenrirr
Posts: 4
Joined: 09-Dec-11

@rav, I am hoping that Dark Ascension will bring more bang for its buck in a way
Date Posted: Sat Dec/10/11 at 4:11pm

PinkiePie
Posts: 157
Joined: 10-Sep-11

Criticizing innistrad when only 1 of the sets has been released is a little irrational!
Date Posted: Sat Dec/10/11 at 8:31pm

darthnefas
Posts: 1081
Joined: 04-Apr-11

Lin, I totally see where you're coming from and now that I think about it you're right. 

We have to realize there is only so many things you can do in the game and making new "ideas" is the trick.  Such as blue winning by mill and black winning with poison counters and white winning by losing or just making itself unkillable to green trampling its way to victory there really has to be something "new" in the game.

The way they've done that how the cards interact, such as vampires, then zombies but even that isn't new because we had Kor and Mercenaries that weren't done too well.

I did like the optional color cards (U or 2 life for instance), but I don't even think they got to original with that since the 2 life thing was easy enough to pay.  Should've been like U or BB and be an ability that both colors could have (brother colors). 
Date Posted: Sat Dec/10/11 at 8:51pm

lin sivvi
Posts: 1608
Joined: 14-Jan-10

Yes I am aware that new ideas are difficult to come up with without breaking that constraints.  But going back to plane shifted, not only did the cards break the color constraints they weren't even new.

Also what bothers me the most is that green, whose former weakness was a lack of effective card draw was given a concentrate
Date Posted: Sat Dec/10/11 at 9:34pm

PinkiePie
Posts: 157
Joined: 10-Sep-11

The whole point was that they WERE new! Having an effect thats the same as an older effect, but shifting the color, makes the card totally different! It still happens, but now it isnt so blatant! Its also really nice for edh players!

Getting 1 draw spell didnt revolutionize the way green works! Harmonize is played in mono g edh, and thats it! If it had been a green brainstorm, that would be different, but its not an amazing card!
Date Posted: Sat Dec/10/11 at 10:10pm

lin sivvi
Posts: 1608
Joined: 14-Jan-10

I beg to differ, after finding that card I went back through all my mono-green decks.  Everyone of was made significantly better with the addition of at least 1 harmonize.  Concentrate is an amazing card, at four mana it allows for a huge card advantage, for cheap.  In speed decks it gives a boost just as your deck starts to slow down, for stall it gives you the power to hold do control, and for combos, it cycles in some more cards.
Date Posted: Mon Jan/16/12 at 2:38am

ghostfire86
Posts: 496
Joined: 04-Nov-09

Look just wait till next block when we roll into Ravnica 2. Then as all multicolor sets go things will become really crazy and everyone will not even notice the Eldrazi cards.

Sets like Zendikar and Inistrad set the stage to either add in new mechanics (and see which can survive for futur use) or buff older mechanics.

Blocks like Invasion, Ravnica, Lorowyn, and Shards are where the true potential of cards come to light starting some interesting new deck types (in my opinion). These cards tend to stand alone well just by theirself with no aid. Tarmogoyf, Knight of the Reliquary, Figure of Destiny, and Dark Confidant are just a few of the most recent. Remember no teir 1 deck is mono color so color integration and compadability are key.

All sets from past to future have been made to tweek older cards and dust them off so they fit in todays format (whether that be by dumbing it down or making it op for the block its in). Remember that when cards make it to Legacy and Vintage, these two formats are the great equalizers for a reason to cards that Were OP.

 
Date Posted: Tue Jan/17/12 at 12:51am

BebopDaBebop
Posts: 52
Joined: 21-Oct-10

Super powerful mythic rares and planeswalkers are the only thing I really have against Magic.

I don't have the money, nor the will, to pay that much for magic cards. I just got back into Magic online, and built a couple of decks for only a couple of bucks each. It's great playing against people with a similar wallet, but when I go up against Jaces, Titans, and the like it is not really fair or fun.

I'm not sure I get the Innistrad hate though. I'm loving the set so far. It oozes of flavor, and there's a few really great budget options for cheapskates like me.