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Title: Trigger this...
Date Posted: Tue Aug/10/10 at 4:30am

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

A Serra Avatar, enchanted with lifelink and Celestial Mantle...
You can arrange the two triggers right? So you can gain life from lifelink first then double it right? Generally you can get more life that way...
Date Posted: Tue Aug/10/10 at 4:35am

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

let X1=your current life total
X2=Serra Avatar's power/toughness... which will also gain you life from lifelink...
X1 and X2 is always equal...
X1=X2=X

Life total after combat damage version one = (X1+X2)*2 = 2X*2 = 4X
your life will be 4 times your current life

as oppose to:
Life total after combat damage version two = (X1)*2 + X2 = 2X + X = 3X
your life total will just be 3 times your current life
Date Posted: Tue Aug/10/10 at 6:18am

Zark-the-Damned
Posts: 523
Joined: 24-Feb-10

As of M10 Lifelink isn't a triggered ability, it happens at the same time as damage is dealt. (so you would have the life first anyway)

However, if you used older enchantments like Spirit Link then that is triggered, and you can stack the two triggers in any order.
Date Posted: Tue Aug/10/10 at 6:50am

Gregorius
Posts: 411
Joined: 01-Aug-10

So let's see... the way I'm reading this, you're gaining life from two sources, and according to Gatherer, life gained from lifelink precedes that of Celestial Mantle's ability... so with your current life total as variable 'T' and your soon-to-be life total as 'Tⁿ', the equation I'm getting is: Tⁿ = (T + (T + 3)) x 2. Assuming your life is quartered, so say 5, by the time the turn Serra Avatar comes out, by the end of your turn, you should have...

Tⁿ = (5 + (5 + 3)) x 2
     = (5 + 8) x 2
     = 13 x 2

...26 life at the end of your first attack. Respectable.

[Edited by Gregorius on 10/Aug/10 at 6:53AM]
Date Posted: Tue Aug/10/10 at 7:12am

Zark-the-Damned
Posts: 523
Joined: 24-Feb-10

Yup, from 5 to 26 is not a bad comeback at all :D

Now give that badboy Battle Mastery for more hilarity! 110 life at the end if my math isn't out...

(26 + 29) * 2 = 110
Date Posted: Tue Aug/10/10 at 7:38am

Gregorius
Posts: 411
Joined: 01-Aug-10

I was thinking Daybreak Coronet personally... maybe an equipment that deals direct damage as well, like Viridian Longbow.

First strike, lifelink, vigilance, and an extra chance to do damage just by tapping it? Do the math on THAT one.
Date Posted: Tue Aug/10/10 at 7:45am

Zark-the-Damned
Posts: 523
Joined: 24-Feb-10

The longbow math is pretty easy. You gain 1 life. (Celestial Mantle only triggers when the creature deals combat damage to a player).
Date Posted: Tue Aug/10/10 at 7:53am

Gregorius
Posts: 411
Joined: 01-Aug-10

...even though Viridian Longbow clearly states: Equipped creature has "Tap: This creature deals 1 damage to target creature or player" ? I believe that counts as the creature dealing combat damage to a player.
Date Posted: Tue Aug/10/10 at 8:06am

Zark-the-Damned
Posts: 523
Joined: 24-Feb-10

Not all damage is combat damage.

Combat damage is only ever caused by creatures attacking - any other effects such as tapping to deal damage just cause regular damage.
Date Posted: Tue Aug/10/10 at 8:08am

Gregorius
Posts: 411
Joined: 01-Aug-10

Okay... so Viridian Longbow isn't really necessary here then...
...still, what would happen if we, say, stacked Battle Mastery and Daybreak Coronet on Serra Avatar for vigilance, lifelink, first strike and double strike? Would that prompt as many as three "combat phases" with which your life total increases more and more each time?
Date Posted: Tue Aug/10/10 at 8:17am

Zark-the-Damned
Posts: 523
Joined: 24-Feb-10

Unfortunately, First Strike and Double strike don't stack. (there are only two damage 'steps' and Double Strike uses both)

Currently the only way for a creature to deal combat damage more than twice per turn is to have additional combat steps and attack in each one.

For example, Finest Hour.

This reminds me, I was building a Bant deck.... must add some of this lot into it :)
Date Posted: Tue Aug/10/10 at 9:31am

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

Battle Mastery FTW!
Date Posted: Wed Aug/11/10 at 7:49pm

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

Nice... so your life becomes 3 times the life before damage is dealt...
Date Posted: Fri Aug/13/10 at 7:05am

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

First strike and Double strike don't add to 3.
Date Posted: Sun Aug/15/10 at 7:24pm

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

Wish they make a triple strike creature... LOL
Date Posted: Sun Aug/15/10 at 7:29pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

That would be insane. Even if it was a 0/1
Date Posted: Mon Aug/16/10 at 8:07pm

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

that's pure awesome... And imagine triple triggers for deals combat damage triggers...
Date Posted: Wed Aug/18/10 at 5:43am

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

Curiosity. . .
Date Posted: Wed Aug/18/10 at 7:18pm

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

Yeah... Thieving Magpie with Curiosity... then triple strike...
Date Posted: Sat Aug/21/10 at 10:02pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

Yep.
Date Posted: Sun Aug/22/10 at 2:07am

Pal-of-Lim-Dul
Posts: 1148
Joined: 24-May-10

Equipping it with Mage Slayer gives it added punch...
Date Posted: Sun Aug/22/10 at 7:32am

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

Or the morph creature with a Glimpse added in.
Date Posted: Sun Aug/22/10 at 7:55pm

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

You mean, Raven Guildmaster?
Date Posted: Sun Aug/22/10 at 7:57pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

Yep. (>'.')>
Date Posted: Sun Aug/22/10 at 8:13pm

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

But Raven only exiles 10... Glimpse mills 20...
Date Posted: Sun Aug/22/10 at 8:18pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

What?
Date Posted: Sun Aug/22/10 at 8:30pm

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

Raven guildmaster only exiles 10 cards while Glimpse of the Unthinkable mills 20 cards... You decide which is better, exile or mill? more or less?
Date Posted: Mon Aug/23/10 at 11:45am

Zark-the-Damned
Posts: 523
Joined: 24-Feb-10

Glimpse the Unthinkable only mills 10 cards, don't know where you're getting 20 from.

Raven Guild Master in general is better, Exiled cards are usually harder to get back. Plus it's repeatable and fairly easy to make unblockable (e.g. Writ of Passage).
Date Posted: Mon Aug/23/10 at 11:59am

W@W Podcaster
Posts: 445
Joined: 01-Jun-10

What happens to aura's and equipment attached to morphed creatures? Becuase if they stayed, then you could use something like Fireshrieker for more cards exiled. [Edited by Hungry123 on 23/Aug/10 at 12:15PM]

[Edited by Hungry123 on 23/Aug/10 at 12:15PM]
Date Posted: Mon Aug/23/10 at 4:24pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

I've never thought of that. . .
Date Posted: Tue Aug/24/10 at 12:20am

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

right,... Sorry about that... glimpse only mills 10... my memory is becoming more and more unreliable...
Date Posted: Tue Aug/24/10 at 11:52am

Zark-the-Damned
Posts: 523
Joined: 24-Feb-10

Equipment and Enchantments attached to face down creatures will stay attached when it turns face up, unless the creature has some sort of ability making the attaching illegal (e.g. you turn over a Krosan Cloudscraper which was enchanted by Rancor, but someone has a Favour of the Mighty out - assuming the Cloudscraper shares the highest CMS (quite likely with a CMC of 10) it will gain protection from all colours and Rancor will 'drop off').
Date Posted: Tue Aug/24/10 at 3:18pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

That's great!
Date Posted: Tue Aug/24/10 at 7:12pm

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

Another informative post from Zark... Nice...



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