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Title: counters question
Date Posted: Mon Jun/28/10 at 1:56pm

d-roc314
Posts: 66
Joined: 22-Nov-09

if you put a +1/+1 counter on a creature with a -1/-1 counter,  does the -1/-1 counter get replaced by the +1/+ counter.  Or is there both a +1/1+ counter and a -1/-1 counter that are just canceled by each other?  Refering to persist abilities.  All I am asking is if the -1/-1 goes away when you put a +1/+1 counter on the creature.
Date Posted: Mon Jun/28/10 at 3:06pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

Persist would be a horrible combo ability if they didn't cancel out.

They cancel out.
Date Posted: Mon Jun/28/10 at 6:55pm

scottymandingo
Posts: 845
Joined: 13-Jul-09

So, just to be clear, both counters are removed from the creature if a +1/+1 is on it then a -1/-1 is put on that same creature?
Date Posted: Mon Jun/28/10 at 7:03pm

d-roc314
Posts: 66
Joined: 22-Nov-09

Thanks for clearing that up for me.  That has been bugging me for a while.
Date Posted: Tue Jun/29/10 at 3:44am

JMDin83
Posts: 880
Joined: 30-Jul-09

yes, if a creature has both a -1/-1 and a +1/+1, they both go away, and it has no counters on it.
Date Posted: Tue Jun/29/10 at 4:13pm

Zark-the-Damned
Posts: 523
Joined: 24-Feb-10

Yup, the counters negate each other as a state based effect. It's whi Juniper Order Ranger loves Kitchen Finks :D

Note this only works with +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters. Some older cards had odd stuff like +1/+0, +2/+2 counters etc, those aren't cancelled out (even if you have two -1/-1 counters for each +2/+2, the creature still has them all!)
Date Posted: Tue Jun/29/10 at 5:22pm

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

Is there such a thing as a -2/-2 counter?
Date Posted: Tue Jun/29/10 at 5:41pm

Zark-the-Damned
Posts: 523
Joined: 24-Feb-10

Bizarrely enough, yes, there is.

It's only used on Ebon Praetor though - http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=184482

According to http://mtg.wikia.com/wiki/Counter_%28noun%29 the types of Power/Toughness changing counters are:

+1/+1 (most common), -1/-1, -0/-1, -2/-1, +2/-1, -2/-2, +2/+2, +1/+0 and +0/+1

Some of these may have been errata'd out of the rules, e.g. I couldn't find any card using +2/-1 counters...
Date Posted: Tue Jun/29/10 at 7:15pm

Twogunkid
Posts: 2609
Joined: 22-Jan-10

baron sengir go +2/+2 counters!!! And the chimeras.
Date Posted: Tue Jun/29/10 at 10:39pm

JMDin83
Posts: 880
Joined: 30-Jul-09

Contagion = 2x -2,-1 counters
Date Posted: Wed Jun/30/10 at 7:46am

Turbine
Posts: 10194
Joined: 26-Oct-09

+2/+2 counters are always the best!
Date Posted: Wed Jun/30/10 at 7:52pm

shakii23
Posts: 5711
Joined: 08-Sep-09

I wonder if there is a +3/+3 counter...



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